Do Aliens Exist?

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Do Aliens Exist?

Postby ryguy » Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:47 pm

The question of "other" life in the Universe is an age old question - and our newest author Keith (longhaircowboy) has published an excellent take on the subject, including witness accounts, scientific history - and some wicked cool words of wisdom of his own. Great work longhaircowboy - what a great article.

Read the article, and feel free to discuss it in this thread.

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Re: Do Aliens Exist?

Postby longhaircowboy » Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:57 pm

Thanks Ryan. It was easy for me to put together since I was having a similar debate with someone on another forum. I think the debate boils down to some very simple precepts. Most people seem to land on one of two sides. Yes there is life out there and no there isn't. I can't find too much of a middle ground. The fence is pretty clear and there isn't anyone on it(ok maybe a couple but the fence is so big their invisible). I'd love to hear anyone elses take on it especially any fence sitters. Bet I could argue em off either side.
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Re: Do Aliens Exist?

Postby MikeJamieson » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:26 pm

My "vote" on the general question (of their existence in general): yes, of course they do.

My "vote" on the question of alien visitors to our solar system is again a "yes" (but without the cocky of course they do). Fact is, ANYTHING existing is weird. Aliens existing in our neighborhood is no where near as weird as the fact that there appears to be an "existence", lol.

This should be a fun thread!
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Re: Do Aliens Exist?

Postby MikeJamieson » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:34 pm

BTW, I think it is very clear that no clear cut evidence exists suggesting an alien presence here. I agree with the point there made in the article.

I'm only revealing my own subjective filtering and projection process when I say "yes" to the 2nd question.
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Re: Do Aliens Exist?

Postby MikeJamieson » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:31 am

I think the following report shows very clearly the process of the leaps we make with our subjective filtering and projection. The incident itself may demonstrate an event with some puzzling features, but note how the self described (previous) skeptic makes the leap to concluding that what he witnessed was not "man-made". I have been poring over Nevada based reports at Peter Davenport's http://nuforc.org for some time now (mainly to have material to repost for http://renothirdeye.wordpress.com in my "Reno X-Files" category articles) and I have yet to come across anything that undeniably says "this is extraterrestrials operating in our atmosphere, etc". To some degree, this goes along with the point that longhaircowboy makes about the fallibility of human perception. And, thus why we can't soley rely on witness testimony alone. (BTW, I think the same filtering and projection dynamic is operating oftentimes in the physical trace evidence cases, like the ones Ted Phillips works on.) So....one place to go to see all this in play is Davenport's site. (Which I do go to despite the fact he regularly appears on that creepy Jeff Rense's show.)
http://renothirdeye.wordpress.com/categ ... o-x-files/

REPORT #1 -FAYETTVILLE, NC, at 22:40 hrs. (local) on February 20, 2008

Approximately 22:40 EST, 20 February 2008, at XXXX ((deleted)) Drive, Fayetteville, NC 28311, I was observing the lunar eclipse that began about 22:30 EST. From my position in North Carolina, the moon was in full lunar eclipse; weather was ideal- "clear blue and 22" as we say in aviation; the moon was approximately 55 degrees South/ Southwest overhead- in other words, I had a clear unobstructed view of the lunar eclipse from my position on my front porch in Fayetteville, NC. I normally wouldn't be looking at the moon except this Lunar Eclipse event had been widely publicized on TV that evening. I was enjoying an event with unobstructed view that few will ever witness in their life time.

Approximately 10 minutes into the full lunar eclipse, about 22:40 EST, I noticed on the left side of the moon (as I was facing it), a very bright, round object resembling a satellite; a bright pin-point of light object; clearly not a naturally formed object appeared suddenly, traveling in a straight line from the left side of the back side of the moon- it was clearly traveling in a straight line towards Earth. In about one to two seconds, the object made a 90 degree turn to my right, directly in front of the face of the fully eclipsed moon. As quick as it appeared and shot across in front of my unobstructed view of the eclipsed moon, it disappeared off to my right side of the Moon and became invisible almost immediately of passing out of the Umbra shadow of the Earth eclipse of the Moon. The entire event was less than 5 seconds.

I am a US Army trained combat helicopter pilot, Desert Storm veteran of the Gulf War. I'm accustomed and trained to look for things, especially at night. This was not a naturally occurring object. This object made intelligent turns and in relation to the position of the moon, was traveling at as fantastic rate of speed. I am not a UFO nut. You may even call me skeptical. I have been able to observe a great deal of objects while flying with night vision goggles at night in various parts of the world. I have witnessed many naturally occurring and man-made events in the sky normally not seen with the naked eye. But this object appeared from the back-side of the moon with my un-aided view and flew directly across in front of the moon was of intelligent design and flight path. It probably would not have been visible during the lighted or visible, not eclipsed, moon, by an un-aided human eye. But during the eclipsed darkened view of the Moon, it was so clearly visible to the naked human eye! I truly believe the object I observed was not of natural origin but of intelligent origin. I am capable of distinguishing the difference between a circular type orbit versus a straight flight path. This object was of the latter. And I know of no known human-made objects that could have produced such incredible speeds and turns based upon its observed position that night from the back side of the moon, making an instant 90 degree right turn in front and across the eclipsed moon that night.

By the way, I was 47 years old at the time of the lunar eclipse and my eye sight has been evaluated as 20/12 & 20/15 in each eye during every one of my US Army Flight Physical Evaluations for the past 20 years.

I honestly believe I witnessed an intelligently driven object not of man-made origin. I have reluctantly not reported this event to anyone before now because it was so incredible to believe myself. And I do not want to be labeled a "UFO Nut". But I witnessed, regardless of scrutiny, a truly incredible event that evening on 20 February 2008 during the Lunar Eclipse.

(NUFORC Note: I have spoken with this witness on several occasions, and my impression is that he is an excellent witness. PD)

REPORT #2-YAKIMA, WASHINGTON, at 19:50 hrs. (local) on October 07, 1974

Huge search light beam from 4 miles high in the sky illuminating a one mile diameter circle on the ground.

Passenger asked pilot what was a light in the sky overhead. Flight was direct from Pendleton, Oregon, to Sea-Tac (Airport) at 10,500' msl. The light source seemed to be sourced at about 20,000' msl like a huge landing light or search light that illuminated the ground below about 1 mile in diameter. The source was not visible as though a wing-light was blocked by the fuselage, but the cone of light got brighter and ATC denied any traffic in the area.

At this point I elected to change course and fly around, rather than through, the light beam area. Air to air queries to other pilots affirmed that the anomaly was visible to others that night. At this point "Deep Throat" advised to "can the chatter if you want to keep flying". The beam was visible until descending into Sea-tac.

The next day a Seattle radio station reported that some hunters in Winthrop, WA, called in to report seeing the same light to the south and wondering what it was.

(NUFORC Note: We have contacted the source of the report, requesting more information about the incident. PD)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UPDATE TO MORRIS PLAINS, NEW JERSEY, CASE, JANUARY--Several individuals allegedly launched pyrotechnic devices, attached to helium-filled balloons. NUFORC will post links to the news articles about the two men who launched them, and the subsequent court cases, in which they pleaded guilty to minor charges.


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Re: Do Aliens Exist?

Postby Access Denied » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:43 am

ryguy wrote:Great work longhaircowboy - what a great article.

Agreed, however I’m afraid the same can’t be said for our editorial staff… I spent some time today fixing typos that our Editor In Chief missed. :)

MikeJamieson wrote:I'm only revealing my own subjective filtering and projection process when I say "yes" to the 2nd question.

I wouldn’t say that’s necessarily all your own would you?

What I mean for example is if I take my own sighting (seeing is believing!) into account, I think my initial interpretation that I held for many years (must have been alien!) was significantly influenced by the popular (pseudoscientific) thinking at the time regarding Aliens and UFOs I had already been exposed to.

The osmosis hypothesis if you will...

These days however, based on decades of my own research into the subject, talking to those who would be in a better position than me to know what’s going on, and what I’ve learned since then of the very real limitations presented by our ever increasing knowledge of physics, I’m thoroughly convinced I have no idea what I saw…

I seriously doubt it was an alien spaceship though.

Anyway, my current thinking on the question of “Do aliens exist?” is they’re probably asking themselves the same question…
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Re: Do Aliens Exist?

Postby ryguy » Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:16 am

Access Denied wrote:Agreed, however I’m afraid the same can’t be said for our editorial staff… I spent some time today fixing typos that our Editor In Chief missed. :)


Thanks AD...I guess I should have paid more attention to spelling and typos than I spent on packing for vacation...lol. It took some time to get a good image to load in for Drake's equation and was a bit more pressed for time than usual!

Excuses, excuses...I know, I know... :)

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Re: Do Aliens Exist?

Postby longhaircowboy » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:11 pm

Access Denied wrote:I’m thoroughly convinced I have no idea what I saw…

I can certainly understand that thought. I've had 4 sightings in my life and they remain mysteries to this day.
I have just come across a book while looking for material for my next piece and wish I'd found it for this one. Two things jumped out at me in the first part of the book. They mention xenophobic aliens who would be inclined not to seek out others and might in fact hide their communications. Also Fermi's Paradox- If they are out there, why aren't they here. The book is An Introduction to Planetary Defense by Taylor,Boan,Anding,Powell(2006).

MikeJamieson wrote: Fact is, ANYTHING existing is weird.

I came across many instances of just this type of thinking in my research. I found that the consensus of non rare earth thinking was that if you accept that we exist then there must be other life. The rare earth folks are mostly creationists and IDers and have no room in their thinking for anyone but us humans. It seems that it would be sad to be so tunnel visioned.
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Re: Do Aliens Exist?

Postby MikeJamieson » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:30 pm

What I mean for example is if I take my own sighting (seeing is believing!) into account, I think my initial interpretation that I held for many years (must have been alien!) was significantly influenced by the popular (pseudoscientific) thinking at the time regarding Aliens and UFOs I had already been exposed to.

The osmosis hypothesis if you will...


Exactly right. Our subjective filtering process is based on these influences. In my case, probably the early Keyhoe and Lorenzen books (where encounters with non-human looking types associated with landed UFOs were chronicled.)
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Re: Do Aliens Exist?

Postby MikeJamieson » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:32 pm

The rare earth folks are mostly creationists and IDers and have no room in their thinking for anyone but us humans. It seems that it would be sad to be so tunnel visioned.


Yes, that's probably the main "demographic" holding to that pov. Strangely, though, I know someone here who doesn't fit into those categories and he thinks we are "alone". I probably need to explore that a little bit with George.
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Re: Do Aliens Exist?

Postby longhaircowboy » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:10 pm

By here do you mean at RU or where your at?
There's a good book that gives the dish on the rare earth theory, Rare Earth, published by Copernicus Press in 2000, by Peter Ward and Donald Brownlee.
There's a review of it here- http://tal.forum2.org/rare
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Re: Do Aliens Exist?

Postby MikeJamieson » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:14 am

Oh, sorry! "Here" is this coffeehouse in Reno! That is where I get a free wireless signal for the internet.
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Re: Do Aliens Exist?

Postby longhaircowboy » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:37 pm

Well let us know what you find out from George.
I leaning more to the xenophobic Type III civilization. That seems the most likely scenario.
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Re: Do Aliens Exist?

Postby lost_shaman » Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:21 am

Access Denied wrote:
What I mean for example is if I take my own sighting (seeing is believing!) into account, I think my initial interpretation that I held for many years (must have been alien!) was significantly influenced by the popular (pseudoscientific) thinking at the time regarding Aliens and UFOs I had already been exposed to.

The osmosis hypothesis if you will...


Hey AD,

I see this "osmosis" all the time with people in general and certainly on UFO forums. It seems like people just assume that if something strange is observed they've seen Aliens! The reverse is often also seen with many self proclaimed "skeptics" in-that many of them assume that anyone reporting observing something strange is really trying to convince people that Aliens exist. IMO, a majority of people discussing these topics fall into one of these two intellectual traps.

People do observe things that defy clear common prosaic explanations. That doesn't mean these people have seen Aliens or are trying convince others that Aliens exist. There simply are some observations that defy explanation.

Access Denied wrote:These days however, based on decades of my own research into the subject, talking to those who would be in a better position than me to know what’s going on, and what I’ve learned since then of the very real limitations presented by our ever increasing knowledge of physics, I’m thoroughly convinced I have no idea what I saw…

I seriously doubt it was an alien spaceship though.


And thus you've hit the nail on the head so to speak regarding the true nature of the "UFO" phenomenon. That is some times people observe a phenomena that despite all we know still defy explanation.
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Re: Do Aliens Exist?

Postby longhaircowboy » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:43 am

Absolutely people see unexplainable things in the sky. Doesn't make em alien though. I'm researching reverse engineering and the whole bloody mess only seems to lead to some advanced projects funded by DARPA(with a budget about a third of NASAs R&D). And don't get me started on Jack Shulman and Hal Puthoff. Oh wait maybe I'll just run with the Richard Boylan view.
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