Does God exist?

[ryguy]

Hopefully?

The first step would be developing a practical experiment or two...

-Ry

[gunter]

I'll talk to Daz Dude about that right away.

[You Can Call Me Ray]

Death has no sting. Disease and suffering happens while you live. That is part of the human condition.

I'm with Rintendo on this one. Part of my training by self-named "spiritual adepts" made a lot of practical sense, and it dealt with how one views death. Given that it is an inevitable passage that all sentient creatures (that we know of) must pass through, then the attitude one adopts to something eventual is pertinent to how ones makes the passage. I have been taught to consider death in all matters, to look upon death as a constant companion that you can turn to for advice, to even "stalk death" to invoke the thoughts of Carlos Castaneda. But I would like to think of it more as "courting death." Which death suits me? Which death will go well with my shoes but not clash with my aviator scarf?

IMO it is in "courting death" that you can separate, in your mind, the means of your death from the passage itself. Moreover, it allows you to determine the types of things that are so important to you that you would be willing to die for them. In one sense, this mirrors some of the teachings of many spiritual masters, not the least of which is Christ. Clearly, he chose something that he thought was worth dying for. Whether that personal decision melds well with mine, or anyone else's, is immaterial.

My own "courting of death" has allowed me to separate even a painful death from the basic right of death's passage. What I mean by that is I have determined that I love aicraft so much (it's an Asperger's thing) that I would not be averse to a death brought about while flying a mission in such a vehicle (though I respect death enough that I am STILL not going to get into a heli anytime soon!). Certainly, there are many ways that I envision my death, and not all end in a firey crash. But the point is that one not have fear of death, to the point where one can even admire a death that may have involved some amount of pain before the eventual passing.

I imagine Steve Fossett, while not wishing to die in the manner he did, would probably have preferred to die that way than wasting away in a bed being fed with a tube...
Ray

[gunter]

I have been taught to ... look upon death as a constant companion

Must suck to be you. Just sayin'.

[You Can Call Me Ray]

I have been taught to ... look upon death as a constant companion

Must suck to be you. Just sayin'.

I would rather be the one stalking death, than the other way around, which it seems you prefer.

Jus' sayin'
Ray

[Rintendo]

figure out what you believe in

That's a tad presumptuous given that you're only halfway through the movie, isn't it? Here's a frightening thought- maybe the answers are more elusive than you imagine. I mean, really... what the hell do we know? It may be a bit unfounding to maintain an open mind but it has its own rewards.

What if it's not "halfway" through the movie? What if the end of the movie is when you find enlightenment? Pride and Prejudice ends with them marrying. We don't need to see them having children or dying.

As for a benevolent God...if your perception of God is anthropomorphic and limited then it would indeed seem as if God is an a--hole. If your perception of God is that It is a limitless, endless, entity experiencing life as both single and individual consciousness through all aspects of creativity both good and bad, then you can see why there is suffering in this world because you will realize that you created it and you let it happen.

If your enlightenment is that you come to the realization that you are both you and your neighbor and the a--holes making war upon the other, that you are all a part of the experience then it equips you with the tools and will to change it by manifesting this truth, or by acceptance that this realm has time and that time will be short compared to the timeless beauty and creative realms of G-D.

When I had my moment of enlightenment it was shocking as I came from an anthropomorphic tradition. I now see the teachings of Jesus in a new light and I also see why the first thing the Buddha said was: you cannot teach this.

I know that I am confident in this knowledge for reasons that I cannot explain or share but I know that this is TRUTH and that life is now one big denouement as I wait for my return to more creative realms.

[gunter]

I have been taught to ... look upon death as a constant companion

Must suck to be you. Just sayin'.

I would rather be the one stalking death, than the other way around, which it seems you prefer.

Jus' sayin'
Ray

All things being equal, I'd rather stalk life. Just sayin'.

[Rintendo]

I'd rather exist in a plane of infinite creativity, love, and joy.

[gunter]

As for a benevolent God...if your perception of God is anthropomorphic and limited then it would indeed seem as if God is an a--hole. If your perception of God is that It is a limitless, endless, entity experiencing life as both single and individual consciousness through all aspects of creativity both good and bad, then you can see why there is suffering in this world because you will realize that you created it and you let it happen.

If your enlightenment is that you come to the realization that you are both you and your neighbor and the a--holes making war upon the other, that you are all a part of the experience then it equips you with the tools and will to change it by manifesting this truth, or by acceptance that this realm has time and that time will be short compared to the timeless beauty and creative realms of G-D.

Here's how I see it.

The Dialectical Concordance: First Principles
1. That among all possible forms and actual entities Ecological Equilibrium necessarily exists.
2. That the basic substance of the universe is characterized by Mood.
3. That the basic substance of the universe is Ethics.
4. That the first three principles constitute the Dialectical Process.
5. That each Principle, in itself, contains the Dialectical Process.
6. That, therefore, there necessarily exists an Identity among all possible realities.
7. That this Identity is dichotomized only by relativity;
8. Which dichotomy in itself constitutes Dialectic.
9. That all argument is therefore by nature, spiralar.
10. That the Spiral Continuum is both ascendant and descendant simultaneously.
11. That Abstraction from the Continuum always results in circularity.
12. That the Will is necessarily characterized as Abstraction from the Continuum.
13. Will is therefore alienation from the Process of Reality- Dialectic,
14. And is therefore in opposition to the Ethical.
15. The Order of Conflicting Wills is Morality.
16. Morality is therefore by its very nature unethical.
17. Process/ Ethics is characterized by Love and Free Harmony among all actual entities.
18. Will/ Morality is characterized by conflict and force.
19. Mergence with Process is accorded by the Imagination.
20. Imagination is the Mood of God.

[Rintendo]

I believe this: that the Source is "joy" manifested as "love" and "creativity" from that springs possibilities that manifest into dimensions and that good and evil are illusions the singular consciousness chooses to create.

[You Can Call Me Ray]

As for a benevolent God...if your perception of God is anthropomorphic and limited then it would indeed seem as if God is an a--hole. If your perception of God is that It is a limitless, endless, entity experiencing life as both single and individual consciousness through all aspects of creativity both good and bad, then you can see why there is suffering in this world because you will realize that you created it and you let it happen.

I am with you again, Rintendo. This sounds very much like a systems engineering approach to God, which is how I characterize my own set of beliefs. That there is some sort of larger system above the context of humanity seems axiomatic, at least to me. That such a larger system context has intentions for its own existence just comes with the territory of sentience, IMO.

Ray

[gunter]

systems engineering approach to God

Really... You can approach Her that way? Or are you simply justifying you own point of existential abstraction? I find your thesis to be shameless and self serving, Mista Youcancallmeray, engineer of note and Cabala hobbyist who makes a decent living and holds the Beatitudes in utter disdain. Please note Concordance Principle number 16. Thank ya verra much.

[You Can Call Me Ray]

systems engineering approach to God

Really... You can approach Her that way? Or are you simply justifying you own point of existential abstraction? I find your thesis to be shameless and self serving, Mista Youcancallmeray, engineer of note and Cabala hobbyist who makes a decent living and holds the Beatitudes in utter disdain. Please note Concordance Principle number 16. Thank ya verra much.

And your opinion is just as good, or as foul, as anyone else's Toon. And you, of all people dare speak of shameless and self-serving? "If it ain't about Toon, it just ain't!"

Yes, indeed, I feel we have found a new signature line quote.
Ray

[gunter]

My soft white underbelly is wounded. Oh my!

[egg]

All beliefs are subject to change either because "reality" is not set or we are not.

I'm currently of the belief that the closest thing to God anyone of us will meet in this life is ourselves. It's a pretty terrifying proposition. It's also a bit of a let down. God's a bit of a slob and touches himself a bit too much. Oh well.... But, that is a great possibility. Without sounding cliche (and, how can't you, talking about THIS), we are God. Perhaps, God being God set this all up for Its amusement. That God is a mood is probably close to the mark. I would hate to think of It as sentient in the human sense.

I've heard many religious or spiritual types point to people in a fearful situation calling on God as proof of God's existence. However, "Please, God, save me!" Does not so much prove God's existence as it does the fear of the one crying for God's services. That human beings have so many gods seems to suggest that perhaps, we are the creators. God and the gods are our creation. Which takes us back to my earlier point that we are gods. Or perhaps, I am God and you are all me. Who knows? Maybe, God doesn't want to be found out.

If anything, I think God may be the crutch that we create to give us hope and to find it in ourselves to do things we would otherwise never do. Face it, how much credit do you give yourself? You need someone to help you through this life. At least, sometimes.