An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

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An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby fernergy » Fri May 21, 2010 3:47 pm

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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby fernergy » Fri May 21, 2010 4:26 pm

Here's a link from that organizations website detailing the experiment. In my next post I will point out what I see are very serious flaws in the overall design of this experiment ...
http://atransc.org/research/evpmaker_study.htm
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby fernergy » Fri May 21, 2010 4:33 pm

Please refresh this page. I just added the link to that experiment in my last post.
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby ryguy » Fri May 21, 2010 4:36 pm

Linda,

Thanks so much for your post, and I look forward to reading the details of the study design...this is exciting. I'm anxious to read more.

Quick question about your Aunt - when she was alive and "sending" you EVP's, did she afterwards admit to you that she sent them? I've read about "live visitations" where someone who is still living "astral-projects" to another location and takes part in a sort of haunting of another location, yet they're still alive (read about it, not saying I believe it). I'm curious if, in your claim about your Aunt, that you're describing the same sort of thing?

Also - how did you go about recording your Aunt's EVP's when she was alive? On a tape recorder in a quiet room, followed by questions etc?

I'm very interested in the study design, and looking forward to that - but I'm also very interested in the claim that you captured those EVP's from your Aunt before she died, predicting her death. I'd love more details on that!

Thanks - and thanks for your fascinating post...great job with the formatting!

-Ryan
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby Chorlton » Fri May 21, 2010 4:43 pm

OK I'll bite.
I have an interest in EVP. I also owned a recording studio with more electronics you could shake a stick at. I did, up to several months back every night, leave a multi track recording machine running, connected to 12 microphones. They were directed towards a transmitter/receiver running into a dummy load and fed with a white noise generator capable of running up and down the frequency band automatically and locking on to any signal not within the white noise level.
In over 386 hours..........nothing. That actually means nothing, I was simply trying out a similar experiment I had read about.
Now.
I listened to your recording and they sound nothing like EVP I have heard previously. They are however comparable with 2 things I have heard.
One is a voice being run through a Vocoder then phase shifted.
Secondly the sound is similar to the electronic gizmo sound people who have had Oesophageal operations use, then phase shifted. To me they arent convincing at all and are easily replicated or hoaxed.

As for the research project. I think your first big mistake is having people running it who are already involved in EVP, they will automatically be biased. Just my opinion.

Could you explain your listening setup please?
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby fernergy » Fri May 21, 2010 5:00 pm

ryguy wrote:Linda,

Thanks so much for your post, and I look forward to reading the details of the study design...this is exciting. I'm anxious to read more.

Quick question about your Aunt - when she was alive and "sending" you EVP's, did she afterwards admit to you that she sent them? I've read about "live visitations" where someone who is still living "astral-projects" to another location and takes part in a sort of haunting of another location, yet they're still alive (read about it, not saying I believe it). I'm curious if, in your claim about your Aunt, that you're describing the same sort of thing?

Also - how did you go about recording your Aunt's EVP's when she was alive? On a tape recorder in a quiet room, followed by questions etc?

I'm very interested in the study design, and looking forward to that - but I'm also very interested in the claim that you captured those EVP's from your Aunt before she died, predicting her death. I'd love more details on that!

Thanks - and thanks for your fascinating post...great job with the formatting!

-Ryan


Hello Ryan and thanks for your interest in the material I've shown here so far.
There have been cases in EVP of those who claim that they have gotten voices of people identifying themselves by name in EVP when in fact they are alive and well. We in the field say that in those cases, the person who came in via EVP may have been sleeping at the time when their voice was recorded. There have also been cases when someone comes in via EVP who was in a coma at that time they said their name in the recordinig. So, yes, even though such cases are extremely rare, I'm told that such things have happened but I do not know any EVP researcher who themselves have had such experiences.
But as for those EVP I got of my aunt coming in and saying her name and "Hi", my spirit contacts were also telling me at that time prior to her death that Aunt Ruthie is in heaven now. So this was telling me that she was going to die soon.
Robin Foy of the famous Scole Experiment gave me the following message about this case:
Reply by Robin Foy on May 5, 2010 at 11:20am
Send Message
Hi Estee,
What an amazing piece of evidence! It just goes to verify that as we near our own physical death, our spirit body becomes more and more detatched from our physical body in preparation for our transition. To capture this on EVP in this way is - to my mind - a spectacular scientific breakthrough!
Well done. Keep up the good work!!
Love and best wishes, Robin

For your next question... I record using my computer via Cool Edit.

Will be back later to post my thoughts about Tom Butlers experiment and thanks so much for your comments so far!
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby Chorlton » Fri May 21, 2010 5:03 pm

"For your next question... I record using my computer via Cool Edit. "

And your sound and frequency generating source is? Please tell me its not from the computer?
Using a computer to record sounds is not a good idea
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby fernergy » Fri May 21, 2010 5:11 pm

Hi Chorlton,
I use something called the radio sweep method but sometimes I do not use any background noise at all. I'm not going to go into any detail on what the radio sweep method is but google up Franks EVP Box ....

In the work I do, the EVP recording is not even important... all that is important is getting the correct answers via EVP or.. as in this case, it predicted the death of my Aunt.
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby fernergy » Fri May 21, 2010 5:15 pm

Chorlton wrote:"For your next question... I record using my computer via Cool Edit. "

And your sound and frequency generating source is? Please tell me its not from the computer?
Using a computer to record sounds is not a good idea



Chorlton... i'm not interested in trying to prove to you the veracity of the EVP phenomenon.
This thread was set up to analyze a research experiment. I don't care how hard you tried to get some evp coming into your recordings but one thing I need to point out to you is that not everyone can record evp... it's actually a form of mediumship...

I will not be answering anymore of your questions on my own recordings...
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby ryguy » Fri May 21, 2010 5:20 pm

fernergy wrote:But as for those EVP I got of my aunt coming in and saying her name and "Hi", my spirit contacts were also telling me at that time prior to her death that Aunt Ruthie is in heaven now. So this was telling me that she was going to die soon.


Okay, this is a little different than your comment above - you said the EVP's predicted her death, but now you're saying the EVP just said her name, followed by the word "Hi"....but at the same time other voices (in your head, ouija board, etc...??) were telling you she's in heaven now?

I agree with Robin's opinion that the human spirit becomes detached with the physical body toward the end (personal opinion, not scientific) - but Robin's labeling of this as a "spectacular scientific breakthrough" seems odd to me.

I have to admit that I'm already on shaky ground now, just given your analysis of the "prediction" of your aunt's death. But I know you're here to discuss this upcoming experiment, so let's do that. I am off to review it and will offer my own feedback tonight - I hope others here will as well!

-Ryan
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby Chorlton » Fri May 21, 2010 5:25 pm

fernergy wrote:
Chorlton wrote:"For your next question... I record using my computer via Cool Edit. "

And your sound and frequency generating source is? Please tell me its not from the computer?
Using a computer to record sounds is not a good idea



Chorlton... i'm not interested in trying to prove to you the veracity of the EVP phenomenon.
This thread was set up to analyze a research experiment. I don't care how hard you tried to get some evp coming into your recordings but one thing I need to point out to you is that not everyone can record evp... it's actually a form of mediumship...

I will not be answering anymore of your questions on my own recordings...


FACEPALM !!!!


So you get asked legitimate questions and you bottle out?
You cant use a computer to generate the same sound as you are recording.

You also asked a question about the project.
You cant have people who are already involved in and convinced of the veracity of something, actually running the project as they will be biased unless you have sufficient safegurds and neutral people involved.
But finding neutral people will be difficult as only those with an interest in EVP will find the project.

If you check back to last year or the year before you will see I voiced and interest in EVP back then and said I would be trying something out. I'm totally neutral about it and am willing to be convinced but you arent doing yourself any favours by falling at the first hurdle when questioned.
This is mostly a sceptics site. If you didnt want to get questioned, why did you post, or did you simply want publicity?
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby fernergy » Fri May 21, 2010 5:29 pm

ryguy wrote:
fernergy wrote:But as for those EVP I got of my aunt coming in and saying her name and "Hi", my spirit contacts were also telling me at that time prior to her death that Aunt Ruthie is in heaven now. So this was telling me that she was going to die soon.


Okay, this is a little different than your comment above - you said the EVP's predicted her death, but now you're saying the EVP just said her name, followed by the word "Hi"....but at the same time other voices (in your head, ouija board, etc...??) were telling you she's in heaven now?

I agree with Robin's opinion that the human spirit becomes detached with the physical body toward the end (personal opinion, not scientific) - but Robin's labeling of this as a "spectacular scientific breakthrough" seems odd to me.

I have to admit that I'm already on shaky ground now, just given your analysis of the "prediction" of your aunt's death. But I know you're here to discuss this upcoming experiment, so let's do that. I am off to review it and will offer my own feedback tonight - I hope others here will as well!

-Ryan


Ryan... I'm not sure what you are confused about but just because I added more detail to this particular case and that is that my controls were also telling me via EVP that Aunt Ruthie was in heaven now... this in addition to Aunt Ruthie herself coming in too an saying hi. In fact, I should add that I got quite a few EVP and in my report here on what happened, I said that she and I were conversing back and forth via EVP. So I've been very, very clear from the beginning on those EVP I got having to do with my aunt that came in PRIOR to her death.

I look forward to your comments on the design of that experiment. I will point out those things in that study that I'm having issues with in my next post.
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby Chorlton » Fri May 21, 2010 5:31 pm

fernergy wrote: I said that she and I were conversing back and forth via EVP. So I've been very, very clear from the beginning on those EVP I got having to do with my aunt that came in PRIOR to her death.


Oh Dear.
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby fernergy » Fri May 21, 2010 5:39 pm

Chorlton wrote:
fernergy wrote:
Chorlton wrote:"For your next question... I record using my computer via Cool Edit. "

And your sound and frequency generating source is? Please tell me its not from the computer?
Using a computer to record sounds is not a good idea



Chorlton... i'm not interested in trying to prove to you the veracity of the EVP phenomenon.
This thread was set up to analyze a research experiment. I don't care how hard you tried to get some evp coming into your recordings but one thing I need to point out to you is that not everyone can record evp... it's actually a form of mediumship...

I will not be answering anymore of your questions on my own recordings...


FACEPALM !!!!




So you get asked legitimate questions and you bottle out?
You cant use a computer to generate the same sound as you are recording.

You also asked a question about the project.
You cant have people who are already involved in and convinced of the veracity of something, actually running the project as they will be biased unless you have sufficient safegurds and neutral people involved.
But finding neutral people will be difficult as only those with an interest in EVP will find the project.

If you check back to last year or the year before you will see I voiced and interest in EVP back then and said I would be trying something out. I'm totally neutral about it and am willing to be convinced but you arent doing yourself any favours by falling at the first hurdle when questioned.
This is mostly a sceptics site. If you didnt want to get questioned, why did you post, or did you simply want publicity?


This is not a skeptic forum ... I've always seen it a 'sceptical believers' forum in regard to UFOs and the paranormal; there's big difference there.

Also, once again, the evp recording itself is not important and most people can't understand EVP anyways but what is important is getting correct answers via evp .. even answers to questions the recorder such as me does not know the answer to but the person who asked the question does know the answer where the EVP turns out giving the correct answer.

Whew! Lol, need to take a break now but will be back later! Thanks for your feedback so far on the design of that experiment and will comment on it later.
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Re: An Experimental Design for a Paranormal Phenomenon

Postby ryguy » Fri May 21, 2010 6:04 pm

fernergy wrote:This is not a skeptic forum ... I've always seen it a 'sceptical believers' forum in regard to UFOs and the paranormal; there's big difference there.


Absolutely.

Also, once again, the evp recording itself is not important and most people can't understand EVP anyways but what is important is getting correct answers via evp.


I agree...except I would go further and say that no one yet understands EVP, and I would seriously question anyone who thinks they do have answers at this point. You are right, getting correct answers via EVP (in a very tightly controlled experiment) is the bottom line. Keep in mind that getting correct answers isn't always proof of paranormal activity. Please check out this article that I wrote recently about Ask Peter. A lot of people out there believe that Ask Peter is grounded in some sort of paranormal source. It's a cheap parlor trick.

The problem with getting correct answers in EVP is that you have to ensure that the device (and the person) doing the recording isn't creating the effect either knowingly or unknowingly.

One example of unknowingly - I interviewed some local ghost hunters here in Maine, and he mentioned the picked up EVP's on a baby monitor. Being an electrical engineer, the first thing I started to ask him was if he checked whether anything in the area could have been transmitting on the same frequency. Before I even had half the question out of my mouth, he said that's exactly what they did, and discovered a baby monitor system in an apartment upstairs that was the cause of the EVP - they were able to repeatedly recreate the phenomenon using the second system.

I describe this because - a true EVP collection system will be as isolated from outside interference as much as possible, the person doing the recording should not know what the target is (the proposed experiment covers this angle well), and there should be multiple people aware of the target - not only EVP "believers." Chorlton's point on that is a very good one and should be seriously considered.

If only the EVP experimenters have the target info before, during and after the experiment, it's too easy for skeptics to claim tampering or bias. Here's what I would propose to beef up the experiment

1. A whole team of "observer" researchers (including not only EVP enthusiasts but open-minded skeptics as well) be provided with the target before the "recorders" are tasked with recording.
2. The "observers" should receive the same "recorder" target guesses as the experiment creators receive - directly from the folks doing the recording, not forwarded from the experiment founders.
3. "Recorders" should all use the same exact EVP recording setup (I believe this is covered in the layout that you linked to?) and no input or "program" from the experiment founders should be sent or installed on the computer systems of the "recorders."

In other words, there needs to be a separation from the folks running the whole experiment from the observers and from the analysis itself. Otherwise, claims of tampering or rigging of the experiment will be too easy to make.

The key will be independent recorders and independent observers. The experiment organizers need to take an approach that's as hands-off as possible.

I look forward to reading your views and the ideas that you mentioned you have as well.

-Ryan
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