A Litany of Lies - The Truth Prevails

[ryguy]

Just one before I consider your response (thanks for that.) Which is the proper venue for this discussion- the forum or the blog? Your choice.

Either one is cool - I don't mind sharing any of this stuff publicly in either place (maybe the forum is the most convenient?) I want to respect when someone tells me they would like to keep something private, but if they themselves do not keep it private (even if its filtered through a crazy person), then I consider myself free to discuss as well.

Come to think of it - definitely the forum. I don't want to muddy the waters involving the RT investigation with silly R&D drama.

-Ryan

[jeddyhi]

I personally think they are posting such things because they think it will drive a wedge between us, but if that's the case it's pretty stupid thinking. They'll try anything it seems. Oh well, aside from a quick talking point, it doesn't distract us from the job at hand.

Yep, the old create division tactic. Spread disinformation and leak it to the team members in hopes that it will cause arguments and division and then the investigation will go away.....not gonna work.

We have all been around the block to many times for that kind of tactic to work.

[gunter]

spreading the truth that I've been hearing about Ron.

Please elaborate. Hearing from whom? When?

4. Posters are encouraged to cite supporting evidence when providing facts. If no evidence is provided, posters are encouraged to preface their statement with acknowledgement that the post is a statement of opinion only.

5. Posters are encouraged to defend their arguments. Direct questions must be answered in a timely manner.

[ryguy]

spreading the truth that I've been hearing about Ron.

Please elaborate. Hearing from whom? When?

You don't need to cite the rules, I have no problem telling you what I can. But I'm not going to pull the trigger on sharing most of the details that are unsubstantiated. I will share the truths with you.

The truth is that Ron's brother and ex-wife are distributing claims to a whole mix of people throughout Ufology. Mostly people Ron has had dealings with. On the flip side Ron has been making counter-claims against his brother. Other facts/truth - there's an estate, the mother died, and there is lots of money at stake.

I decided to stay out of the mess because the claims are so horrible (on both sides) and they are rumors I wouldn't spread about my worst enemy - particularly without providing supporting documentation or anything to back it up.
**Edit** - Removed info about Gary ***

...I've been asking for supporting evidence for the claims (on both sides) - but the whole entire affair is a big family feud, it's a mess.

My comment above was that if Ron plans to try to use disinformation and lies, filtered through Dan, in order to try and discredit RU - that tells me that maybe the rumors and statements from the brother about him are true, and I should turn 100% of my focus and attention on following up on those leads.

That's all (so far).

**Edit Notes: After Gary contacted me about the comments above, I went back through my notes and realized that I'd read a note too quickly. It was a note from Gary to Dan that looked like Gary wrote it (if you just skim it like I did), but it was actually a quote of someone else going after Ron and planning to attend the trial to gather data...for the record it wasn't/isn't Gary doing that, it is someone else writing under a pseudonym.**

-Ryan

[You Can Call Me Ray]

Gary is jumping in head-first with the hope of trashing Ron - to the extent of attending the divorce proceedings in July. I guess the intent is to come up with anything possible to discredit Ron.

Wow. He just reached a new low of disrespect in my eyes. He's got some issues...
Ray

[AussieMike]

Great work people, your hard work and diligence has really paid off, and Kevin Smiths comments in the blog really typify that.
As someone who values Truth,(for the rare and precious commodity it is in this feild) i am very grateful for the hard work done on our behalf

[gunter]

My comment above was that if Ron plans to try to use disinformation and lies, filtered through Dan, in order to try and discredit RU - that tells me that maybe the rumors and statements from the brother about him are true, and I should turn 100% of my focus and attention on following up on those leads.

OK. I hate to see irrelevant personal details posted anywhere, so I'm right with you on that.

[AussieMike]

Hot off the press and completely blowing the photoshoped nametag idea out of the water



We have a match, thats the same handwriting on the nametag. without a doubt a match


Of course the jake reasons of this world would have us believe its a photoshopped image of his own name, in his own handwriting on a picture of himself..........

[Access Denied]

Amazing what a little independent research can do isn’t it?

Also amazing is how many UFOlogists “vetted” Theilmann and conspired to keep his identity a secret… it’s almost like they knew what would happen if independent investigators found out isn’t it?

The “disclosure” tactic of “run it up the flagpole and see who salutes” is nothing new in UFOlogy…

Project Mask
http://www.cufon.org/cufon/mask/projmask.htm

In early 1986, the outline of a proposal to create a UFO hoax was sent to several members of the "UFO community."

[snip]

What is needed is to catch the government with their pants down, and to do it in full view of the public eye. We need to observe first hand what role the government takes in the investigation of an actual UFO event. The problem is that actual UFO events don't take place when you want them to, and it would be only by providence that we would be in position at the time of a sighting.

My proposal is to do the next best thing: CREATE a UFO event, and watch the Men In Black or whoever, come out of the woodwork.

I'm not talking about your run-of-the-mill hoax. I'm talking about a well-financed, stringently planned, professionally executed Sting operation.

[snip]

I know what you're thinking: "That's espionage!"....Well, it you define espionage as obtaining information for purposes of aiding and abetting an enemy of the United States, then you put the government in the rather embarassing position of having to define that enemy. And if the government has reason to believe that the United States has enemies in outer space, shouldn't the public know something of that threat? I think it can be shown that we would be acting in the public interest, not in the interest of some unseen "enemy". In any case the trial would be very interesting.

Give it up already… the government has no answers for you.

[at least not any you want to hear or can accept]

The MJ-12 hoax failed.

[insert a bunch of other hoaxes that failed but made some people some money here]

The “Serpo” hoax failed.
The “California Drones” hoax failed.
The “Secret UN Meeting Brought To You by Source A” hoax failed.

How about doing some real Science for a change?

[how? ask me!]

[gunter]

Real science? Ed Condon style? Phil Kass? Donald Menzel? Let's revisit the beginning

[lancemoody]

Yes, this is the beginning.

And unfortunately it is also the end. Then as now, there is no compelling evidence that allows for an unambiguous conclusion. There have been ZERO scientific developments in UFO study since 1947. There is no reason to think that there will be any in the future.

Instead a religion of sorts has formed of people who desperately WANT to to believe in the saucers despite the lack of real evidence.

I note that, in the clip posted, that Keyhoe mentions the names (when he actually gives details at all instead of his silly unnamed sources) from several cases (Chilles and Whited, for instance) that have near-conclusive prosaic explanations.

This will be lost on the true believer, for whom ANY claim is conclusive if it praises their Saucer Jesus.

Lance

[ryguy]

This will be lost on the true believer, for whom ANY claim is conclusive if it praises their Saucer Jesus.

Lance

Man....that was a brilliant first post, I must say.

[gunter]

Brilliant? Or just another 'round up the usual suspects' appeal to Klassic debunkery?

[ryguy]

Brilliant? Or just another 'round up the usual suspects' appeal to Klassic debunkery?

The line that I quoted is particularly brilliant, because you can see evidence of it every single day in countless posts and blog entries across the net. So long as it promotes their saucer Jesus, it must be true.

It's great to open your mind to the possibility of the ET hypothesis, but it's not "debunkery" to open your mind even further to the idea that maybe there are other much more probable and plausible explanations for the phenomenon? Or is any stance that runs counter to the currently accepted Ufology "ET" hypothesis a form of "IC debunkery" in your book?

[longhaircowboy]

I'm glad you guys exposed this liar. Men like him should rot for assuming honors they don't deserve. They seem to have a Napoleon complex. We just recently had a case here in the Tampa area of a guy posing as a decorated Marine. Unfortunately he got a leniant scumbag of a judge who gave him a slap on the wrist. Having served my country honorably during the Vietnam era this is especially galling. I only recieved a couple of medals but I don't go bandying them about. Charlatans like he should be at Ft. Leavenworth cracking rocks with a rubber mallet.