Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby James Carlson » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:53 am

Access Denied wrote:Well, Hastings has now posted his “proof” at UFO Chronicles that James “lied” and UFOs were actually involved…

[as opposed to it being a prank that nobody took seriously including Figel]

http://www.theufochronicles.com/2010/09 ... -hunt.html

Links to Figel’s comments—his actual, audiotaped words—appear later in this article, contradicting virtually every claim made by James Carlson who, in his own grossly distorted summary of the Echo Flight case, has consistently lied about the colonel’s various comments to researchers. This article will set the record straight.

The other launch officer at Echo that day, Captain Eric Carlson, is James’ father. The elder Carlson—whom I interviewed on audiotape as well—says he doesn’t recall any reports of UFOs at the time of the missile malfunctions, or recall having been debriefed about the incident back at Malmstrom, or recall being told by his squadron commander not to talk about the incident.

Nevertheless, as we will learn, Colonel Figel disputes all of Eric Carlson’s claims.

While, suprise, among other things, completely ignoring the more recent comments from Figel.

I haven’t listened to the audio recordings yet but I notice the transcript of his conversation with Figel appears to be a verbatim reposting of what he already posted before that’s still incomplete and contains numerous edits and “clarifications” by Hastings at crucial points.

That's pretty much what I expected -- the same crap they've always transcribed and misinterpreted in their sad attempts to press forward a case that has never actually been made in the first place. I think they'll find it far more difficult to refute Figel's most recent comments with more BS like this. Like I've said repeatedly: he's just mouthing off in order to get past this press conference, and he doesn't have anything actually worth looking at twice. This has pretty much been proven, in fact, since his "new" posting is just a second look at his "old" crap. Unfortunately for his claims, Walt Figel is still alive and is still very positive that UFOs were just not involved. It's a pretty simple concept that Hastings has apparently been unable to understand fully: if you're still alive, you can still talk, and if you can still talk, you can still tell the truth -- which in this case proves that Robert Hastings is as much a liar as he is a fool. I don't know whether you guys have been doing so or not, but the past few days, I've been conducting kind of an informal survey of all the forums that actually discuss this press conference they're putting on, and by a large majority, most people think they're lying and are doing so in order to sell books.

Congratulations, Robert -- you've manged to repeat yourself into a well-deserved obsolescence matched only by the devastating injury you've inflicted upon your own credibility. Cheers, buddy ...
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby ryguy » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:08 am

Figel stated in the tapes that the ground crew reported UFOs, and that a second team reported the same. That is *not* what he told James in any way shape or form. In my opinion he's either lied to Hastings or he's lied to James, this can't go both ways.

Did you guys listen to the recording of the call with Figel?

Figel to James Carlson (recently):

"I told him that when someone mentioned UFOs, I just laughed it off as a joke and assumed someone was just kidding around. I never took it seriously."


Figel to Hastings (in 1996):

"WF: Then when the first [missile] went down, and I talked to the security [team] out there, they reported this UFO hovering over the site. I said, “Yeah, right. What have you guys been drinking out there?” And we [sent] Strike teams to both of the sites that had been occupied.

RS: Uh-huh

WF: These Strike Teams—I didn’t tell them what we had heard [about the UFO]—you know, via the LF radio, and I told them to go get within a mile of the site there and call back in on the VHF (Very High Frequency telephone). And they both reported that we had two maintenance crews, two security troops on-site, and two Strike Teams all reporting it."


He even says to Hastings that he reported back that information over the secure line.

In my opinion, Figel has only now backed off on his claims once James started poking around, because Hastings was calling his dad a liar for not supporting what apparently Figel had reported in 1996. In my opinion Figel is the one that has some difficult questions to answer as to why he contradicts himself.

This isn't about being right or wrong, it's about getting down to the truth. That's all that matters here.

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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby Tim Hebert » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:45 pm

I had posted last night right as James was posting. I will add my post to this one as I believe that it provides telling information concerning Figel's accounting to Hastings and then to Salas:
Tim Hebert wrote:Nothing surprises me with this on-going saga.

The Echo/Oscar Witch Hunt


What witch hunt? Normally you would think of a concentrated/organized group forming a "witch hunt" yet Hastings singles out James. Theatrics and hysteria at their best.

WF: I remember I got a trip to Omaha to discuss [the Echo Flight shutdown] with CINCSAC (the office of the Commander-in-Chief, Strategic Air Command, Offutt AFB, Omaha , Nebraska ).

RS: Oh, you did?!

WF: Oh yeah. Someplace, if I look deep enough, I could probably find the TDY (Temporary Duty) orders to do that.


Why would a Lt be sent to SAC HQ to brief CINCSAC? Unprecedented would and is my first thoughts. Interesting that Figel did not tell Hastings this little tidbit. True or confabulation after all these years? I certainly would like to see the copies of the TDY orders. Oh, why would Figel be sent to Offutt and not Eric Carlson. Carlson was the crew commander, not Figel. James, did your father ever state that he and Figel made a trip out to Offutt AFB to discuss the Echo shutdown?

Tim

ETA: Above quotes taken from Hasting's article and excerpts from Robert Salas and Walt Figel's interview posted on http://www.theufochronicles.com


Why did Figel give this info to Salas, yet not mention it to Hastings? To the casual reader this may mean nothing, but to me, as a former crew commander, it provides telling info.

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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby astrophotographer » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:52 pm

Basically, we have Figel stating two things. It was a sea story that got out of hand IMO. Figel heard the rumors, mentioned it to Salas and Hastings, and amplified a bit on it. He did not realize that James was going to trying to get him to commit on the matter and Eric's statements were contrary to his. Once this occurred, he changed his position. I am sure Hastings will state his recent position is because of "pressure form outside sources". I find it amusing that Hastings brought out the same old interviews when he promised his more recent phone conversations with him after James mentioned that he had talked to him. Now that interview would be interesting to hear (unedited of course).
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby Tim Hebert » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:31 pm

Figel's statements to Salas is "technically/Operationally" accurate when explaining his version of events. Figel refers to the MGS as "the can", which is how I would talk about the MGS. Figel contacted the SRT/SAT via "vhf", which is an accurate description versus just saying radio contact. Contact to the maintenance team on the LF is made via "secure lines" which is also accurate, the SIN line. Simply, you have two ex-crew members "talking the talk", however one interprets the contents.

Figel gives Hastings a "dumbed down" version due to Hastings not having a clue as to how the system operates. Further enhancing my believe that Hastings is a poor researcher.

Hastings and Salas are in the same belief camp, yet they are both selling a book, so they are financially opposed to one another (My speculation). This may have led to Salas withholding some of Figel's statements to Hastings, or easily the other way around.

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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby James Carlson » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:26 pm

Hastings "Witch Hunt" article states the following:
Unfortunately, there is a parallel story unfolding at the moment. In recent months, a pitched online debate has taken place between James T. Carlson and myself regarding allegations of UFO activity at Malmstrom Air Force Base’s Echo Flight on March 16, 1967. Credible testimony relating to the incident indicates that all of the flight’s Minuteman missiles malfunctioned just as security guards were reporting a UFO hovering above one of the ICBMs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what "debate" is Hastings talking about? He has refuised to answer the numerous questions I've put to him, he has deleted entirely any of the discussions or comments I've tried to make in response to his claims at UFOCHRONICLES -- having done so four times now, without bothering to address the issues I've raised at all -- and he has been promising for the past 6 months to address the embarassing written statements given by COL.(Ret.) Walt Figel that prove Hastings' own incompetence as a researcher, and his consious distortion of Figel's assertions. And the crap he's now come out with still refuses to deal with that issue!

Is this what he calls a "debate"? I'll discuss the matter with him any day of the week, but his end of this "debate" has thus far been pretty nonexistent since 2008 when he first decided to delete my arguments from UFOCHRONICLES and refused thereafter to answer ANY of the quiestions I've had for him. That's a pretty fascist defintion of "debate", isn't it? Why does he always log off on every forum on which I encounter him? Is this what he calls "debate" -- this running away and allowing others to present insults and lies in his stead?

Grow up, Robert. If you want a debate, then let's have one. But stop all this cowardly posturing and present some arguments worth listening to. You might start with answering the 49 questions you promised to answer after your trip to Alaska -- when was that? Yeah, last March. The one time I get you to actually discuss something, and even then you refused to do so "live". Why are you so afraid? These are valid questions I put to you in a live forum, and you refused to answer them then, because you had a prior engagement. Supposedly. You said you8'd do so on the plane to Alaska and that you'd post the answers within a few days. Is that what a "debate" is to you? A one-way crap-fest? Since you appear to be the mouth of this new Hastings-Salas crap fest, perhaps you can tell me why Salas has refused to even give a statement in regard to the many, many questions I've had for him as well.

I guess "debate" is something you never really learned the definition of during your salad years. As for your defintion of "credible testimony" I can't help but think that maybe you need to buy a dictionary. You still haven't told me how Dwayne Arnesson -- I think that's his name -- could have noted anything at all from his position as officer-in-charge at the 20th Air Division comm shack at Malmstrom AFB when the 20th AD never had offices at Malmstrom AFB. They were in Wyoming, remember? And if I remember properly, this is one of the credible witnesses you're actually taking to Washington, DC on the 27th.

If Walt Figel actually told you that UFOs were the cause of the Echo Flight missile failures, why aren't you taking him to the National Press Club on September 27? In fact, if you've got 120 ex-military "witnesses" who are all so damn credible, why aren't they all going to Washington, DC with you?

You guys got a great scam going; it's fortunate that most Americans know you're full of ... well, we won't get into what you're full of.

Come see me sometime, baby -- but leave the flatulence at home ...
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby ryguy » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:56 am

James Carlson wrote:If Walt Figel actually told you that UFOs were the cause of the Echo Flight missile failures, why aren't you taking him to the National Press Club on September 27?


That is a very good point.

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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby Access Denied » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:43 am

James Carlson wrote:You guys got a great scam going; it's fortunate that most Americans know you're full of ... well, we won't get into what you're full of.

This is how the story played during the Bill Handel Show on KFI 640, the most popular (over 1 million listeners) talk radio station in Los Angeles, on my way to work this morning…

[Play] or [Download]

Go to 50:40… you’ll love “according to him and the author of a couple crazy ass books” and the 120 witnesses “driven there by guys in white... coats”. I was actually kind of surprised how incredulous they were considering the same station hosts Coast to Coast AM late at night… well, that and Rush Limbaugh too.
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby James Carlson » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:47 pm

I just finished listening to it -- brilliant stuff! Surprising where you'll find wisdom these days, isn't it?
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby ryguy » Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:06 pm

Hey Guys,

Walt Figel's response to the tapes is now published. Article turned out just under 2000 words - sorry. I had to cover the background and thanks to the fact that Figel was willing to write so much in response - well, it turned out to be a doozy of an article. lol.

Hope everyone enjoys. I'm off to distribute via mass user-email to our members.

http://www.realityuncovered.net/blog/20 ... continues/

-Ryan
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby DrDil » Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:41 pm

ryguy wrote:Hey Guys,

Walt Figel's response to the tapes is now published. Article turned out just under 2000 words - sorry. I had to cover the background and thanks to the fact that Figel was willing to write so much in response - well, it turned out to be a doozy of an article. lol.

Hope everyone enjoys. I'm off to distribute via mass user-email to our members.

http://www.realityuncovered.net/blog/20 ... continues/

-Ryan

Another nice article. :D


(http://blog.ufo-blog.com/2010/09/malmst ... salas.html)
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby Gilles F. » Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:43 pm

Another nice article.


Definitely. Thank you so much, Ryan.

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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby Gilles F. » Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:29 pm

BTW,

If it could or should help on how credulity is exploited, consciously or not...

We are following all of this in our french skeptic forum "sceptic ovni" and relaying. One our best forum contributor (it is me the best ^^ - joke -), "Nablator", noted this day the following "woowooland statment" in Robert Hastings's page:

http://www.ufohastings.com/LecturePage.html (a screenshoot have been released in case off...).

1950 FBI memo that states that the Air Force has secretly recovered crashed flying saucers in New Mexico and reveals what was discovered within them.


:^o :cry:

The FBI memo is the following :

Image

Or this one (furnished by D. Caudron credits) :

Image

It is noticed in this memo that the source is the famous Leo Gebauer alias the famous "Dr. Gee" who was known for long time for hoaxes ( an "oil detector") and the false flying saucer crash story of Frank Scully's book.

Robert Hastings seems to ignore all of this and/or is using the credulity of the public about what have been investigated concerning this memo.

For more info, this english page of french Patrick Gross and his credits :

http://www.ufologie.net/ce3/1950-01-01-usa-mojave.htm

Best Regards,

Gilles F.
Last edited by Gilles F. on Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby Gary » Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:39 pm

Spy games...

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Image
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Re: Malmstrom AFB Missile/UFO Incident, March 1967

Postby Gary » Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:41 pm

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