Jesus meme, poached from an older myth ?

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Re: Jesus meme, poached from an older myth ?

Postby AussieMike » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:47 pm

Im sorry ryan but the facts dont support your faith

Showing that the Torah is at least 3,313 years old. The Periods of Jewish History (in brief). Tracing the Torah back to Moses.


Horus on the other hand is from the Predynastic Period of Ancient Egypt (prior to 3100 BC) is traditionally the period between the Early Neolithic and the beginning of the Pharaonic monarchy starting with King Menes

That is to say early neolithic

The Egyptian sun god Horus, who predated the Christ character by thousands of years, shares the following in common with Jesus:

Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
His earthly father was named "Seb" ("Joseph"). Seb is also known as "Geb": "As Horus the Elder he...was believed to be the son of Geb and Nut." Lewis Spence, Ancient Egyptian Myths and Legends, 84.
He was of royal descent.
At age 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years.
Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by "Anup the Baptizer" ("John the Baptist"), who was decapitated.
He had 12 disciples, two of whom were his "witnesses" and were named "Anup" and "Aan" (the two "Johns").
He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus ("El-Osiris"), from the dead.
Horus walked on water.
His personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father." He was thus called "Holy Child."
He delivered a "Sermon on the Mount" and his followers recounted the "Sayings of Iusa."
Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
He was killed, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.
He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light," "Messiah," "God's Anointed Son," the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd," the "Lamb of God," the "Word made flesh," the "Word of Truth," etc.
He was "the Fisher" and was associated with the Fish ("Ichthys"), Lamb and Lion.
He came to fulfill the Law.
Horus was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One."
Like Jesus, "Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years."
Furthermore, inscribed about 3,500 years ago on the walls of the Temple at Luxor were images of the Annunciation, Immaculate Conception, Birth and Adoration of the pharaoh Amenhetep (Horus), with Thoth announcing to the queen that she will conceive; with the god Amun impregnating the queen; and with the infant being attended by three "kings" bearing gifts. In addition, in the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus being held by the virgin mother Isis--the original "Madonna and Child."



Clearly the Horus story not only predates the torah, its the same story.

Hard as it must be to hear, you seem to be doing a "Hastings" here, ignoring the obvious evidence in favour of your pet theory
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Re: Jesus meme, poached from an older myth ?

Postby Access Denied » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:55 am

AussieMike wrote:Im sorry ryan but the facts dont support your faith

Mike, it’s always a good idea to check your sources before proclaiming facts…

Jesus Christ in comparative mythology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Chri ... _mythology

Self-taught amateur Egyptologist Gerald Massey argued that the deity of Horus and Jesus shared identical mythological origins in his 1907 book Ancient Egypt, the light of the world.[12] His views have been repeated by theologian and Toronto Star columnist Tom Harpur, author Acharya S, and political comedian Bill Maher.

Acharya S in the author of The Christ Conspiracy that you quoted and…

Mother and child parallel

Image

On the left is a bronze statue of Isis nursing Horus dating from the Ptolemaic dynasty of Egypt; on the right is a famous medieval icon of Mary and Jesus. Some believe that the close maternal relationship between Isis and Horus presented in ancient Egyptian imagery were incorporated into later Christian iconography.[16][32] In particular, the depictions of Mary and Jesus from Our Lady of Perpetual Help and the Black Madonna of Częstochowa share many similarities to extant ancient Egyptian art depictions of Horus and Isis.[33] Egyptologist Erik Hornung wrote that "There was an obvious analogy between the Horus child and the baby Jesus and the care they received from their sacred mothers; long before Christianity, Isis had borne the epithet 'mother of the god.'"[34]

This is the result of early Christian exposure to Egyptian art. In a survey of "twenty leading Egyptologists" by Dr. W. Ward Gasque, a Christian scholar, found that all who responded recognised "that the image of the baby Horus and Isis has influenced the Christian iconography of Madonna and Child" but that there were no other similarities, e.g. no evidence that Horus was born of a virgin, had twelve followers, etc.

If there is any evidence of similarity beyond the obvious iconic influence, it doesn’t appear to be scholarly.

That’s not to say I reject your basic premise, I just thinks it needs more work if you ever hope to convince the faithful. That said, the Wikipedia link above appears to offer some other avenues of research you might want to look into…
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Re: Jesus meme, poached from an older myth ?

Postby AussieMike » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:01 am

I asked Ms Murdock about the comment made about massey
This is her reply

This disparagement represents calumny, slander and libel by people who know nothing about the subject. I have addressed these contentions extensively in my book Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection and shown them to be inaccurate and just plain wrong. You certainly may respond with the information on my website concerning Gerald Massey as well as the individual contentions regarding the Egyptian religion as found in my book. I have an excerpt about Gerald Massey specifically, which can likewise be found on my site:

http://stellarhousepublishing.com/christinegypt.html

http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/w ... assey.html

The reasons for these lies and inaccuracies are multifold but need to be kept in mind when dealing with people who make these false claims. Firstly, many who make these claims are Christians who do not want this information to be true for obvious reasons. In general, such individuals are VERY ignorant about the world's cultures, and they themselves know next to nothing about these subjects but must rely on their often equally fanatical scholars, including Ward Gasque, who appears to be a Christian.

Secondly, Egyptologists themselves are often unfortunately very ignorant because they have become so specialized they don't even know what other Egyptologists are saying. In CIE, I use the writings of MANY very credentialed, highly respected Egyptologists themselves. So, those who are pronouncing this material "fringe nonsense" are simply ignorant of it. They need to be pinned down as to exactly what is "fringe nonsense" and then shown where these respected Egyptologists themselves have discussed it. For example, the point about Isis's virginity is well established, but Egyptologists themselves are ignorant of the study of virgin mothers in antiquity and the evidence that Isis was yet another incarnation of the cosmic parthenogenetrix. You can find more about Isis as a virgin mother here:

http://freethoughtnation.com/contributi ... gin-mother

Just as the naysaying Egyptologists and others are ignorant of and wrong about Isis's virginity, so they are likewise ignorant of the other germane motifs outlined by Massey, Harpur, et al. They simply have not studied them, and their academic snobbery and arrogance prevent them from even entertaining the ideas. Not so with earlier scholars who continually display a higher level of critical thinking in this subject matter. Today's Western scholars are frequently funded by vested interest Christian schools that completely discourage this line of thinking. That's the bottom line, unfortunately.

In addition, those atheists who object to this material are often equally as ignorant about the subject as are the Christians. They have not read my work, but they will lazily and ignorantly dismiss it - again, this is a sign of their own laziness, not of the incorrectness of the material.

As you will see from my voluminous book Christ in Egypt, Gerald Massey was largely correct. Those who refuse to read my book should be discounted in their opinion as to the subject, since they are missing a huge amount of information I have provided therein. If they do not want to know this information, fine, but they should then step aside and be quiet when others DO want to know it and not remain in the same ignorant state.

Cheers - and good luck!

D.M. Murdock/Acharya S
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Re: Jesus meme, poached from an older myth ?

Postby AussieMike » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:07 pm

Another excellent article here

http://truthbeknown.com/osiris.htm

On a stela dating from the 18th Dynasty (1570-1070 bce) appears a hymn to Osiris that, per Christian Egyptologist Budge's translation, reads in part:

Thou hast made this earth by thy hand, and the waters thereof, and the wind thereof, the herb thereof, all the cattle thereof, all the winged fowl thereof, all the fish thereof, all the creeping things thereof, and all the four-footed beasts thereof.

The similarities between this passage as translated and the biblical creation account written centuries later are striking. In Genesis (1:24), "God" creates the earth and says:

Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds; cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.


It is not surprising that Genesis and other biblical texts, concepts and stories are largely Egyptian in origin, especially since Israel and Egypt are in such proximity. The historical, literary and archaeological evidence of the influence of Egypt on the Levant is abundant and includes the presence of Osiris in Israel. In an article in the Biblical Archaeology Review (5-6/00) entitled, "What's an Egyptian Temple Doing in Jerusalem?" Gabriel Barkay states:

The name of Osiris appears on an inscribed stele fragment of reddish Nubia sandstone discovered at Hazor in northern Israel and on stelae found at Deir el-Balah, in the Gaza Strip. It seems that this Egyptian deity was especially popular in Canaan, when it was under Egyptian domination.

Artifacts and historical records prove Egyptian presence and influence in the Levant, prior to the rise of the Hebrew/Israelite/Jewish people, and it is apparent that the Canaanite and Israelite peoples were infused with the Osiris myth, which thus affected their own religions, including the Judaic offshoot, Christianity. Like Jesus, Osiris was once believed to have incarnated as a human savior who died and was resurrected for the good of mankind:
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