Interesting video from Jerusalem 2011/01/28

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Re: Interesting video from Jerusalem 2011/01/28

Postby Access Denied » Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:21 pm

cripmeister wrote:David Biedny's response to the videos surprised me somewhat, I used to think he was quite a level headed guy :?

Alleged O'Hare UFO Photo Reveals Possible ATS Hoax
http://www.realityuncovered.net/other/a ... sohare.php

Torbjon Jensen wrote:The Photo "Analysis"

Jeff Ritzmann, as talented and skilled as he is, isn't much of a 'name' though. However, he has a personal friend who IS a name in the industry, David Biedny.

Jeff and David quickly became the "be all and end all" of photo analysis, when it came to The Picture.
Any contrary opinions of the validity of The Picture were played down by the management of ATS, no matter how talented, skilled or well known the individual making the contrary opinion was. Jeff and David were IT.

ALL Jeff and David had to do to 'keep the story going' was to repeatedly state: 'we can't prove that The Picture is a fake'

That's an incredibly SAFE statement to make, even if the picture is 100% falsified. ("Oh, it IS fake? Well, what do you know, learn something knew everyday. At least we tried")

During the two weeks following the arrival of The Picture, Bill and Mark played down the opinions of other photoshop users (and at least one specialist, ATS member "photochopz"), and also came down hard on any ATS member who made comparisons between the O'Hare story and SERPO. At the same time, Jeff and David continued saying things like "we can't prove that it is a fake, here are reasons why we think it Might be genuine". While all of this was going on, the O'Hare thread on ATS grew by 68 pages, and only Bill and Mark know how many page views they received.

Shortly after this, The Above Network receives funding from private investors and becomes an LLC.

Not suprising at all to me...
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Re: Interesting video from Jerusalem 2011/01/28

Postby Slippery Jim » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:05 am

Access Denied wrote:
RICH-ENGLAND wrote:there's some pretty damning evidence been uncovered on the reopened ats thread for all the videos.

Not if Mr Mask’s latest post is any indication… :)

P.S. Check your inbox m0r.

If only he knew what he was talking about!
Integrated and progressive video elements exist side by side: Another smoking gun and evidence of direct image digital tampering- But people have ignored this proof and have gone so far as to say "adding something to youtube does this", or "changing file format can do this". To the best of my knowledge and research, I find no supporting evidence that adding a clip to youtube can produce a finger print that connects the video to tampering in this fashion.


I think he meant "interlaced" i.e. 1080i /1080p or 720i/720p. :roll:
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Re: Interesting video from Jerusalem 2011/01/28

Postby RICH-ENGLAND » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:52 pm

i notice that Skeptic (believer when it gets hits) Overlord is putting his two pence worth in, i wonder why that could be?.............

thanks

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Re: Interesting video from Jerusalem 2011/01/28

Postby cripmeister » Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

@Rich

I guess he's trying to flex some Photoshop muscle but it went horribly wrong - fast.
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Re: Interesting video from Jerusalem 2011/01/28

Postby RICH-ENGLAND » Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:20 pm

cripmeister wrote:@Rich

I guess he's trying to flex some Photoshop muscle but it went horribly wrong - fast.


a little bit like how his star spotting "expertise" soon went south on his "classic" ufo sighting when expertly taken apart by chrlz.

i wonder if he will get as defensive and childish as he did then when his analysis starts being taken apart...

i think the fact he owns the site automatically makes his word "gospel" to anyone that doesn't know better, and he knows this and plays on it.

typical appeal to authority.

thanks

rich
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Re: Interesting video from Jerusalem 2011/01/28

Postby Zep Tepi » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:05 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't SO's post nothing more than fuel for the believer fire?
I wonder why he would do a thing like that...
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Re: Interesting video from Jerusalem 2011/01/28

Postby RICH-ENGLAND » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:15 pm

Zep Tepi wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't SO's post nothing more than fuel for the believer fire?
I wonder why he would do a thing like that...


yup, thats exactly what i was getting at Steve.

i notice how he conveniently "didn't have time" to read all the thread and take on the main points that had been brought up but had a go at the things that were of a more 50/50 nature.

i think he just wants to keep it going while its still able to generate hits, he knows exactly what he's doing...

thanks

rich
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Re: Interesting video from Jerusalem 2011/01/28

Postby BoredNow » Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:12 am

RICH-ENGLAND wrote:
i think he just wants to keep it going while its still able to generate hits, he knows exactly what he's doing...

thanks

rich


Posted this in the "ATS Watch" thread too, but hope I am forgiven for repeating it here: The whole thread is gone now, looks like it is trashed. Does anyone know what is going on and why is has been removed?

Edit to add: Never mind, the thread is up and running again.
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Re: Interesting video from Jerusalem 2011/01/28

Postby Access Denied » Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:15 am

BoredNow wrote:Edit to add: Never mind, the thread is up and running again.

I noticed that too, looks like it was gone for a couple of hours.

I was going to comment in the ATS Watch thread on m0r's posts and Bill's responses and poof... :lol:

Anyway, the award for the most hilarious “proof” of a hoax goes to those still pointing to the motion stabilized video and saying “See, the background doesn’t move!”…

I don’t get the mad rush over there to claim victory for ATS by debunking the video “evidence”… as if the lack of provenance compels it and they have something to prove rather than the other way around. Don’t get me wrong, it’s good to be skeptical and it’s good for Bill and Co.’s bottom line but obsessing over it is to give the hoaxers too much credit and is what causes these kind of things to go viral in the first place…

My advice to enthusiasts is to slow down and don’t let the hoaxers get the best of you.

Be methodical… preferably scientifically methodical of course. :)

Try to develop as many independent lines of evidence as possible before “going to press” and declaring something “conclusive” (if ever) and you’ll save yourself and others a whole lot of unnecessary work and confusion.
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Re: Interesting video from Jerusalem 2011/01/28

Postby m0r1arty » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:48 am

Well stated AD.

It must be noted though that 'going to press' and asking for analysis are two separate things.

I got my hit from this little misadventure and I must say it felt great!

It would have been nice if RU had been a bit more determined or noticeable in debunking this hoax - that's why I brought it here. It's easy to sit here and point the finger but we need to make ourselves useful otherwise we are not too much of a help for sensationalist crap - and that's the crap that trends and makes people sit up and take notice for a moment.

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Re: Interesting video from Jerusalem 2011/01/28

Postby chrLz » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:16 am

m0r1arty wrote:It would have been nice if RU had been a bit more determined or noticeable in debunking this hoax - that's why I brought it here. It's easy to sit here and point the finger but we need to make ourselves useful otherwise we are not too much of a help for sensationalist crap - and that's the crap that trends and makes people sit up and take notice for a moment.
-m0r


I can only speak for myself.... I would first immodestly point out that on SOME sightings I love to get right down and dirty with a full-blown analysis, including doing demo videos/images to show various points.

Those are rare - and the reason I pick them is pretty simple. If the people who make the videos stand up and are prepared to discuss and answer questions, then there's a very good chance of such an analysis being very useful. Now I'm not saying that some of the analysis of this one hasn't been worthwhile, but I've also seen some notable wannabe experts jumping to conclusions that aren't quite warranted.

Thing is, the story behind this one reeks worse than the rear end of a skunk. Where are the people who made it - discussing deals with Jaime, perhaps? Given this 'event' took place over a heavily-populated city, where is there a single corroborative report from even a half decent source? Without even looking at the videos, you can get a very good feeling for what is going on...

I really do think that this particular hoax, and it IS one, has had the imagery over-analysed to several inches beyond it's life (and some of that analysis is significantly flawed), and completely under-analysed from a supporting evidence and sourcing point of view.

Now some might say that is an adhominemesque (like my new word?) approach, but the thing is that the evidence in this case (as with many) is of such horrendously bad quality, that it could easily be generated/faked in a number of ways. If it had been quality footage taken on a simple (and quite inexpensive) DSLR, or even a consumer grade camcorder, it might have piqued my interest a tad more. But as it is, I think this particular topic was a dead equine even before it got started.

I'll be quite happy if junk like that doesn't get much of a hearing at RU - it shows we are discerning... :D

(But I agree that it's been very amusing to watch!)


I'm hoping to start a thread on the topic of image and video analysis, and more importantly what should lead up to it, in the very near future...
Last edited by chrLz on Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Interesting video from Jerusalem 2011/01/28

Postby m0r1arty » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:47 am

chrLz wrote:adhominemesque


Love it!

Onto the video. Whilst it is true I brought up the vampire space alien shapeshifter video as well as this one I thought this one was actually worth discussing due to the fact there were two viewpoints captured in the one video.

I can claim to be sceptical all I want but I knew that these were hoaxes from the outset without any evidence - I just wanted to watch how we dissected them as such.

If we don't flex our grey matter muscle and purely stick to pointing a smelly stick at ATS then we're not really having fun in my opinion. I had tons of fun over at ATS on this one, and granted there aren't too many idiots over here but it would have been cool to have had the edge for being right and then pointing a stick watching others catch up.

I thought we were the best minds denied freedom. We need to show we are.

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Re: Interesting video from Jerusalem 2011/01/28

Postby chrLz » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:06 am

I hear what you are saying m0r, and agree with it all really... But I think we have to accept that there are sites like GLP, ATS and others where they have lots of traffic, and also people who are completely addicted to the society there, who seem to not sleep... and for that simple reason, I'm not sure RU can ever hope to be first. We can, however, be.. better, more thorough, more discerning, and avoid the hype. That's why I'm here....

And sometimes that does mean standing on other's shoulders, or repeating the obvious. And who cares, except those who wish to make money from the supposed 'kudos'. Science has no ego, only those who abuse it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you brought it up, and it *is* the most 'interesting' one for a while..
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Re: Interesting video from Jerusalem 2011/01/28

Postby m0r1arty » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:16 am

chrLz wrote:We can, however, be.. better, more thorough, more discerning, and avoid the hype. That's why I'm here....


Well said,whilst RU might not be up for the hype and immediacy of 'breaking stories' I still need my fix.

The database of knowledge here is superb and when patience and determination is required here is a place for meticulous research.

It might just be me and my need for puzzles to solve against the clock but I thought we could have done something more on this one.

Perhaps I need to mix and match my needs for puzzles and knowledge

-m0r
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Re: Interesting video from Jerusalem 2011/01/28

Postby astrophotographer » Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:48 pm

I agree that RU should be involved in "debunking" these videos and could have been more proactive. To me, it immediately smelled fishy especially only a week before a private e-mail was circulated by MUFONs Mark Easter stating that Sony would pay $25/second of unexplained UFO videos that they could use to promote their upcoming "Battle of LA" movie. Was this a mere coincidence or was that one of the motivational factors to create a hoax?

That being said, who really has the technical expertise in the subject of video editing software? I do a little bit of toying with videos but nothing as complex as what was discussed. I had never even heard of some of the software mentioned in the discussions (although I have an adobe suite which probably includes some of the effects mentioned!). When it came to this case, I just felt more compelled to sit back, watch, and learn about the technical aspects of the video analysis. Maybe next time I will feel a bit more knowledgable on the subject.
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