OM and Mouse Trace

[murnut]

The level of paranoia that must eat at Bren (and the rest of the Admins to explain it away) that would drive him to install a "Patriot Act" program must be really high.

Do they really lay awake a night scheming on ways to prevent banned members from coming back?

Does Fore realize what a pathetic lap dog he comes across as?

I'm convinced this is not something new.

Mouse Trace maybe...but I'm sure they have had other snooping software prior to this.

[jeddyhi]

Leaving the forum wasn't something I felt good about. Being banned on top of it was an added intentional sting that further justified my reason for leaving. In spite of all that has happened, it's amazing that some hold such a blind loyalty to a forum that manipulates the truth and its members. The explanations given by the staff for the installation of Mouse Trace were unacceptable to me, and they were overdue. If this were the first instance of the staff behaving in what I see as a deceptive and insulting manner, then I would not have reacted as I did. What I have seen in my time on OMF is a staff who on one hand encourages open-minded and civil discussion, while behind the scenes works to steer the direction of that discussion and hands out bans to anyone who questions suspicious activity.

I had no agenda at OMF other than to become further informed and offer my opinions on issues that interested me. After the source A affair, where I saw members either leave or be banned and in my opinion, a hoax clearly exposed, I became disillusioned with a place I once enjoyed. I wasn't bitter, as some were, because I felt that I had not been a victim as they had. I felt that if one were to obey the terms of service, that there was no need to worry about bans or moderator action. It's true that I was only banned after I had left, and if I had continued a civil discussion on this Mouse Trace issue I may have narrowly preserved my membership.

What I've come to see at this point, however, is that there seems to be no end to the spin, in the face of any evidence presented. I'm grateful that others on forums such as RU are willing to take the time to expose these lies and manipulations. When these lies relate to promoting a hoax or agenda, it bothers me, but I've come to expect such in the UFO field. It's hard for me to see truth anymore in cases when so many have been clearly exposed as frauds. I've accepted this, but I cannot accept being spied on and lied to directly by *controllers* of a forum that should be based on transparency, truth, and *open-minded* discussion.

The answers being given by the OMF staff were an insult to me given the evidence shown, and were a final straw in my decision to leave. I'm not comfortable being a member of such a group under the conditions that have become more and more clear over the years. It got to a point where I was certain there could be no trust, and that isn't the kind of company I can tolerate keeping.

I've noticed that for the most part, the people who wind up banned from OMF are usually the most intelligent and well spoken. The quote above is evidence of this. Great post, Jon.

[Zep Tepi]

Agreed, great post - along with many others in this thread. Kudos

According to Bren, "The Truth" can be found at OM. Apparently, it's not something people want to know, but it can be found.

So, that provokes a couple of questions...

When Ryan and I provided them with clear evidence that Rick Doty was behind the Serpo releases and that he had lied multiple times about various issues - not least about being a lawyer - did they act outraged that they had been duped, or did they carry on like our evidence didn't even exist and even go so far as to attack me, Ryan and Shawnna personally? They thought of anything they could to deflect attention away from the evidence, actual facts not speculation.

Same with the Source A nonsense, did they support those people who had uncovered a clear fraud - one with criminal implications - and do some investigations of their own, or did they do everything in their power to detract and deflect attention away from the new evidence and then silence their own shocked membership who dared to question their actions?

That's just two example from two separate cases, but I could fill an entire book with specific details from both of them. When they were shown hard evidence, material that you just can't just brush under the carpet, they didn't stop and re-evaluate their position, they went on full on attack mode and tried to show how the evidence must be wrong! Are those the actions of people looking for the truth, or are those the actions of people with an agenda?

It's blatant, it really is.

[bewildered]

See...it is a cult.

Some are obviously brainwashed.

The real questions to why mouse trace was installed in the first place have never been answered.

And why call them private messages if they are not private?

And why ban folks for asking legitimate questions?

Yep, you are 125% correct, mur. An additional 25% because you are so bleedin' correct, it's as obvious as a neon sign in Mayberry to anyone in possession of a brain that has not been lobotomized.

Cults sometimes do group hugs. There's a "grande" group hug going on over there. Hell, they've even whipped out the special "cult outreach hug." The irony's dripping off the pixels on my monitor. Ho ho, hee hee, ha ha.

Here's something for you, Bren. We had a saying in the Army that applies to your situation. "What's the maximum range of an excuse?" The answer: zero meters. Suck it up, dude.

Just as well, since when did you and/or your sycophants start posting to banned members? Interesting.

Your initial "response" was pathetic. What followed has been hilarious. Surely even you in your enlightened state can see what a twit fore is. The guy has issues with the basics...you know, stuff like constructing coherent sentences and adhering to rationality for any appreciable length of time. I usually never make it past the opening lines of his word salads. Erg. Using him for thy mouthpiece = epic fail.

Here's some more obviousness: you're lying through your teeth. Some rational review by some excellent folks here exposed that in a very satisfactory manner. Your words to the contrary are ineffectual and likely just more smoke to blow up the arse of the unwary. It might work on your lobotomized captive audience, but it doesn't fly here.

[Smersh]

FYI there's been another post by an OM admin about Mouse Trace - see Reply #71 here by Lee.

Amongst other things, Lee gave a link to another thread in another forum here in which Mouse Trace is being discussed and both OM and RU have been mentioned. The op in that thread appears to be concerned about Mouse Trace because of what he's been reading. I don't know if he's a member somewhere that anyone here knows though.

(EDIT) The forum appears to be a Birmingham City Football Club supporters forum.

[jeddyhi]

I found that thread yesterday and signed up and posted a link to one of the Mouse Trace videos I made. There seemed to be some doubt as to whether Mouse Trace allowed viewing of PMs so I thought the video would help them out.

[Smersh]

Oh sorry Jed and so you did, I didn't notice your post right at the end there.

Anyway, nice work!

[jeddyhi]

I would like to respond to Lee's post that you linked us to.

Those who are interested in finding the truth of this situation for themselves would do well to read through this very revealing thread: http://www.smallheathalliance.com/read.php?1,609319


Read more: http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index. ... z1TRbd4nl4

Folks, this is more deflection and diversion mixed in with a little damage control. Here is the truth as I know it. The thread that Lee refers to is about Mouse Trace and its ability to make private messages viewable. The site owner states that it is no big deal because as owner and Adminstrator of his site, he can see private messages whenever he wants if he felt the need to do so. But the main difference between him and and a Administrator of a proboards forum is access.

The owner of smallheathalliance.com states this:

If an Admin on a forum wanted to read your PM's then they could.

If I was so inclined I could read any PM I wanted to on here, I could print them out and plaster them on billboards across the city if I wanted to. It's my server and I have access to all data on it, and I don't need to install any tracking software to do it.
I don't do it, firstly because you're probably just moaning about moderation policy, secondly because I would have to be fecking bored to waste my time, and thirdly and using any website is based on trust and I wouldn't want to betray that.

If you don't trust a website owner to keep the information you provide private, then you shouldn't use that website, be it SHA, Paypal, Google, or your Bank.

And back to the initial subject, that sort of software is generally used to see what people are interested in, but don't click on, as people tend to hover over an interesting link before clicking it.

I bolded the most important part. He owns the server and has full access to everything on it. This is not the case on Proboards. No administrator of any proboard hosted forum can access PMs. Not even Bren/Admin of OMF

Here is a thread that shows this to be the case.

So while Lee tries to make it seem like Mouse Trace would not even be needed to view PMs, the truth is that Mouse Trace would be the only way for an Administrator of a proboards hosted forum to view them.

Deflection, confusion, diversion, and misinformation are the name of the game it seems.

Truth be known, none of us here know for a fact that Mouse Trace was being used to strictly have a peek at PMs. All we have done is demonstrated that that is what it could be used for. It would be the only known way for a proboards admin to view them. And the sorry excuses for why it was installed in the first place is what casts that long shadow of suspicion on OM. That and their continued need to deflect and divert instead of giving honest and straightforward answers to reasonable questions.

OM doesn't need RU to make them look guilty, they have that handled all by themselves.

[Smersh]

... Truth be known, none of us here know for a fact that Mouse Trace was being used to strictly have a peek at PMs. All we have done is demonstrated that that is what it could be used for.

I agree Jed and that is my view as well.

It would be the only known way for a proboards admin to view them.

According to this there may be a hack for Proboards. Note the very first one mentioned: "Private Messaging Hacks." Having said that though, that list is dated 2006, is quite possibly out of date now and none of those hacks work with later versions of Proboards.

And the sorry excuses for why it was installed in the first place is what casts that long shadow of suspicion on OM. That and their continued need to deflect and divert instead of giving honest and straightforward answers to reasonable questions.

Yes, that and also as pointed out by Murnut:

... And why ban folks for asking legitimate questions?

[murnut]

More from Lee....
http://lucianarchy.proboards.com/index. ... 1311894075

To clarify, Bewildered's account was suspended, this was done because in the past we have had people delete their posting history, which can destroy the continuity of existing threads. Bewildered has been notified via email that we can and will reinstate his account upon request.

And for the record, joncurcio deleted his own account and was not banned by any member of staff.

hahaha

Why was Bewildered's suspended in the first place?

So amusing...the more the OMF staff talks...the deeper the hole.

I'd still like to actually see a truthful account from Bren on why MT was installed in the first place.

His previous responses are proven lies.

He can't claim it was an accident.

He can't claim he didn't know what he was doing.

He can't claim it installed all by itself

He can't claim he didn't know what it Mouse trace could be used for.

So how about some truth Bren?

Isn't that what OMF is supposed to be about?

[murnut]

OM doesn't need RU to make them look guilty, they have that handled all by themselves.

Quote for Truth

[JonCurcio]

And for the record, joncurcio deleted his own account and was not banned by any member of staff.

And for the record, lies like this are exactly why I deleted my account.

[murnut]

I guess they think if they just keep repeating the same lies, the omf membership might start to believe them.

I mean the staff never admits to any mistakes....ever.

That's probably one of the reasons they won't discuss moderation or bannings in public.

[jeddyhi]

And for the record, joncurcio deleted his own account and was not banned by any member of staff.

And for the record, lies like this are exactly why I deleted my account.

After you deleted your account and left, I bet the next time you went to the forum as a non registered visitor it said....."Sorry, you have been banned from this forum"

After you left, one of them probably banned your last IP address. Banning a member that left on their own is a low thing to do and bad PR actually......another screw up they are trying to bury, hide, deny and disavow.

Thats par for the course lol.

We are not trying to make OMF look bad. They don't need us for that. We just make observations and try to shine a little light on the shadows.

[JonCurcio]

After you deleted your account and left, I bet the next time you went to the forum as a non registered visitor it said....."Sorry, you have been banned from this forum"

After you left, one of them probably banned your last IP address. Banning a member that left on their own is a low thing to do and bad PR actually......another screw up they are trying to bury, hide, deny and disavow.

Thats par for the course lol.

Well, I went back a few minutes after deleting my account to see what had happened, and I could see the thread and my posts were marked as a guest, and only when I came back later was I banned. This tells me that it had nothing to do with what I did, but rather like you said, one of the staff banned my IP. It felt pretty crummy, but reassuring at the same time that I had done the right thing.