By their works shall ye know them...

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Re: By their works shall ye know them...

Postby Tim Hebert » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:43 pm

I just posted on my blog: "FE Warren: The New Echo Flight?...Not Hardly" http://www.timhebert.blogspot.com/ Let's see what happens.

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Re: By their works shall ye know them...

Postby Tim Hebert » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:20 pm

Hastings has posted numerous comments on my latest blog article. He's pissed off because Blogger listed two of his comments as spam and he accused me of deleting his comments intentionally. I cleared the spam tag so his comments are now listed.

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Re: By their works shall ye know them...

Postby James Carlson » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:47 pm

Boy, he's got some nerve, doesn't he? And after Cox did exactly the same thing with my numerous responses to his crap, leaving up Hastings and then deleting everything with Carlson at the end of it. Fortunately, I have copies of most of it, and I intend to post it in a general file published on scrib'd and possibly in a thread here containing everything I've got that those dishonest miscreants decided to get rid of. They've all done a lot of selective deleting, including almost everything I ever put up on UFOCHRONICLES. As far as I'm concerned the blatant hypocrisy they regularly practice over at Warren's stable of fools is more than reason enough believe that they've instituted dishonesty on the web in order to ensure a patently ridiculous and paranoid lie is accepted as homeland reality by fruit cups of America everywhere. They're really not too bright, are they? It's not like they're trying to hide their identities or anything -- only the identities of their alleged "witnesses". God, will somebody please slap me? I feel like laughing my ass off because they actually think nobody's writing this s^~t down! Check out http://ufomagazine.squarespace.com/ufo- ... nt16499067 -- not even Lehmberg can come up with anything half-way interesting to say in their defense, and he's the only one with a decent vocabulary (too bad that's all he's got).
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Re: By their works shall ye know them...

Postby Tim Hebert » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:03 pm

Hastings is supposed to write something of sort exposing me for selectively deleting his comments. I can't wait for that "scathing" rebuke.

Lehmberg bores me. In the past I accused him of being Hastings' parrot...based upon what you presented via the link, that assertion still holds true. Great vocab, yet lacking in originality. Let's see what else transpires...

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Re: By their works shall ye know them...

Postby astrophotographer » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:22 am

I say let him rant. Anybody outside UFOlogy will read what he has written and probably conclude that he has some issues. Like many UFOlogists he reminds me of Captain Queeg convincing himself that the quart of strawberries exist.
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Re: By their works shall ye know them...

Postby James Carlson » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:23 am

astrophotographer wrote:I say let him rant. Anybody outside UFOlogy will read what he has written and probably conclude that he has some issues. Like many UFOlogists he reminds me of Captain Queeg convincing himself that the quart of strawberries exist.

What a great metaphor! Literature and film, all in one fell swoop!
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Re: By their works shall ye know them...

Postby Tim Hebert » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:42 am

Well an interesting day. Odd I thought...Hastings responds to me concerning FE Warren, but totally ignored my "Case Closed" article about Echo, which pretty much sunk his pet fantasy, of course, in my opinion. Leads me to believe more and more that FE Warren is Hastings' "Last Stand."

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Re: By their works shall ye know them...

Postby astrophotographer » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:57 am

Hasting's last stand? Hmmmmm...interesting name for an article but I doubt it will ever be his last stand. Remember, he is Captain Qweeg.
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Re: By their works shall ye know them...

Postby Tim Hebert » Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:56 pm

Tim P., I posted a reply to your comments on my blog. You raised good points. I failed to answer one of your questions concerning the experience levels of the maintenance teams out in the field. Generally they were junior enlisted and their experience level varied. Generally the team chief was the most experience of the two or three, and so forth. A senior chief would have only been in the field for something major going on on a particular site.

Here is an interesting point to ponder: How do we know for sure that the individuals that Hastings refers to actually were disciplined/forced into retirement? We only have Hastings version of that story.

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Re: By their works shall ye know them...

Postby James Carlson » Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:03 pm

Tim Hebert wrote:Here is an interesting point to ponder: How do we know for sure that the individuals that Hastings refers to actually were disciplined/forced into retirement? We only have Hastings version of that story.

Tim H.

We only have Hastings' assurances that they even exist...
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Re: By their works shall ye know them...

Postby Tim Hebert » Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:25 pm

James Carlson wrote:We only have Hastings' assurances that they even exist...


That thought did pass my mind. When you get the chance, Robert has commented on Tim P's and I have replied in kind. BTW, liked your last response to Lehmberg last night, you should save it for future use as I feel that this clarifies your position quite well.

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Re: By their works shall ye know them...

Postby astrophotographer » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:42 pm

This who thing stinks as I tried to state on your blog Tim.

1) I doubt the military would allow these gentlemen to retire if they committed a grave offense (i.e. leaking secrets).

2) The story sounds like a dishonorable or general discharge following NJP.

3) The "go-between" is supposedly retired military. If he were involved in leaking secrets, he would/could lose his pension (at least I had to sign a paper regarding secrets and such) or be punished in civilian court of law. Anyone ever hear of John Walker and his little spy ring? It is essentially the same thing no matter what your motivation. UFOs, money, girls, fame, or whatever is not a valid reason to violate your security oath (or asking others to do the same).

I think #2 is likely and the go-between is not retired but ex-military, who was a buddy but got out after his tour of duty. Hastings seems to have a problem trying to figure out the difference between retired and completing a tour of duty. Maybe he just uses the word "retired" to make them sound more respectable.

Then again, the go-between or Hastings can be making a lot of this up. What a shame, we don't have a name to go with all this. I did some casual searching last night but I could not find any mention of courts-martials or NJPs associated with the missile shutdown. To have one's dd214 'flagged" there would have to be some form of punishment or record of it. One would think that would make some news somewhere (like AF times).

Finally, if all these gentlemen did was tell UFO stories, then they should have asked for a courts martial. It is the right of an enlisted man/officer to receive fair judgement (otherwise a commanding officer could hand down punishment just because he disliked the guy or as part of a cover-up). I was told in boot camp, that if you are innocent, you were to demand a trial by courts-martial because that would set it up so you can be tried fairly (and benefit from a fair judgement IF you were innocent). Why didn't these clowns ask for a courts-martial if it was all about UFOs?
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Re: By their works shall ye know them...

Postby Tim Hebert » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:53 pm

Anyone in the AF could demand an Article 15 hearing rather than subject themselves to any administrative discipline. Your # 2 seems more correct...if any of this is fact vs fantasy for sensational propagation of a "dead" story line.

Let's say that Hastings is "fairly" accurate, the offense that would have occurred would have been the OPSEC violation concerning the day to day operational status of a nuclear resource. Remember why the 341st SMW unit history was classified? Not due to UFO rumors but because of the wing's operational status was in its content. The same holds true today.
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Re: By their works shall ye know them...

Postby Tim Hebert » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:34 pm

I don't know if Hastings will comment any further, but its nice to post a comment without Frank Warren screening and running interference. That's the beauty of home court advantage.
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Re: By their works shall ye know them...

Postby astrophotographer » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:06 am

Yes, the whole idea that they were punished for reporting UFOs is way overblown by Hastings. This is just another publicity ploy. As long as these sources (all of them including the go-between) remain anonymous, they might as well not exist since their stories can not be verified in any way.
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