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This month, Dr Christopher C. Green, a former analyst at the CIA's Office of Scientific and Weapons Intelligence, provided LoveToKnow a rare and exclusive interview.
In this interview, Dr. Green publicly expresses some of his frustration regarding the fact that although he did serve as the "Keeper of the Weird" for the CIA from 1970 up through 1985, but insists those activities barely accounted for 10% of his overall role at the Office of Scientific and Weapons Intelligence.
Dr. Green responds in the interview:
"Overall, I never spent more than 10% of my time on the subjects across any given period of weeks or a month. However, it has resulted in 90% of what is thought to be known about me!"
Kit Green Responds
Dr. Green has responded favourably to the following write-up. He writes:
"An excellent and fair story. Unanswered questions while seemingly pointed toward mysterious answers (still fair ones, however) are accurately posed.
The reader is honestly led by Mr. Dube toward the truth...there is much less true mystery, magic, and conspiracy than meets the eye. I am happy I gave the interview.
Ryan quoted me in context. Aspects of my involvement some may read as foolish, a few may read as stupid, and (I hope) the remaining few may read as highly legitimate paranoid thinking seeking that sliver of true mystery to be solved.
Ryan's story is therefore in my opinion uncommonly balanced and accurate."
A glowing recommendation, I am sure you will agree. Read on for the full story.
Dr. Green's CIA Career
Dr. Green's professional career is impressive by anyone's standards. According to his signed Curriculum Vitae, he was a graduate of Northwestern University in 1962, followed by his Ph.D. from the University of Colorado Medical School in 1969.
In 1969, he went to work for the Central Intelligence Agency. By the end of his career with the agency in 1985, he was reporting directly to the Director of the Agency as a Senior Division Analyst with the newly formed Office of Scientific and Weapons Intelligence.
CIA UFO and Paranormal Research
Concerning the CIA's paranormal work, Dr. Green's Curriculum Vitae does not reflect significant efforts devoted to "the Weird Desk." However, Dr. Green was awarded the President's National Intelligence Medal, in 1985, for his work on a classified project from 1979-1983. This means that the most substantial influence Dr. Green had in the Intelligence community took place after 1979 within the Office of Scientific and Weapons Intelligence. The project was completely unrelated to the CIA's previous foray into parapsychology.
The project is now declassified, and Dr. Green describes his award for this project vaguely:
"It was actually for a large body of research I helped lead over four years. In part, it was to try and figure out what kinds of potential threat agents may be used on an unsuspecting population, causing great harm and death. The program has been declassified, so the world now knows the story, but I am not at liberty to publicly discuss my role. But, in any event, it was as a physician and involved seeing many patients overseas and working with many governments to try and make a diagnosis. Importantly, a number of persons received the medal with me, I was not the only person to be honored, and I was not the most important one."
The fact that nowhere in the CV does it even vaguely list topics related to paranormal subjects supports Dr. Green's statement that "weird desk" work was only a very tiny fraction of his overall responsibilities at the CIA. It also supports the CIA's public statements that they have only marginal interest in paranormal topics such as ghosts and psychic abilities.
CIA Involvement With Parapsychology - 1972 through 1976
CIA involvement and funding of SRI parapsychology research began in 1972 - run by Hal Puthoff, Ingo Swann, and Russell Targ. Kenneth Kress reports in his essay Parapsychology In Intelligence: A Personal Review and Conclusions, that on June 27, 1972, Hal Puthoff sent a letter to Kit Green, who at the time was only a young analyst, informing him of positive Varian Hall magnetometer results during an experiment with psychic Ingo Swann. By October of 1972, Kenneth Kress headed up the expanded project, funded by OTS to the tune of $50,000.
Ken reports that, unfortunately for Dr. Green, allegedly successful experiments in the summer of 1973 regarding a secret NSA facility in West Virginia resulted in a full security investigation, which also extended to Hal Puthoff, Pat Price, and Ingo Swann.
Ken Kress, in his private review, wrote:
"The evaluation was, as usual, mixed. Pat Price, who had no military or intelligence background, provided a list of project titles associated with current and past activities including one of extreme sensitivity. Also, the codename of the site was provided. Other information concerning the physical layout of the site was accurate. Some information, such as the names of the people at the site, proved incorrect."
According to Kress' report from 1977, after the apparent murder of Pat Price, the CIA lost interest in the research in 1975. Later, after the FBI raided Scientology offices, Kress writes that an FBI agent informed him that documents were discovered which proved Pat Price had been acting as a spy against the CIA for the Scientology organization. How this fact played into Pat's ability to "successfully view" allegedly classified information remains uncertain.
Kress continues, "Since July, 1975, there has been only modest CIA and Intelligence Community staff interest in parapsychology. [snip] Several proposals from SRI and other contractors were received by CIA but none were accepted. There are no current plans for CIA to fund parapsychology investigations."
CIA Involvement with Ufology - 1979 through 1985
The CIA interest in the paranormal, however small, appeared to shift from psychic functioning in the early 1970s, to UFOs and Ufology in the late 1970s.
In his July 2008 interview, Dr. Green reports, "I was very involved from about 1976 until 1978, was one of six or eight analysts who were involved, and generally familiar until 1983."
In a follow-up interview, I asked Dr. Green if his involvement in the paranormal "weird desk" topics were regarding UFOs, since the CIA was no longer involved in parapsychology research after 1975.
Dr. Green responded:
"Great question. In 1975 I left for a 3 year medical sabbatical to El Paso to do an Externship at Eastwood Hospital. I returned to DC for update briefings and security reviews once or twice a year for a day at a time in those three years. During the years 1975 - 1978 (when I returned in September...to find my new friend Ron, who had joined in the meantime)...I was no longer involved in the Paranormal stuff, except peripherally. The UFO stuff was tiny...I only saw one decent report or piece of intelligence [Bruce Macabbe's UFO and FasWalker data in 1978] from then to 1983, long since made public.
Dr. Green's response above refers to one of the few Ufologists who had obtained a good view, early on, of what was going on within the CIA regarding paranormal topics after 1979. This ufologist was Navy man, and UFO researcher, Bruce Macabbee.
In 1979, Bruce traveled to New Zealand to research the New Zealand UFO sightings of December 1978. According to the "Associated Investigators Group", Bruce Macabbee managed to obtain a meeting with the CIA to screen the film and summarize his analysis.
According to Maccabee, this was where he met Kit Green for the first time. At this initial meeting, Dr. Green informed Macabbee that he was the one who managed the CIA's UFO files.
In The UFO/FBI Connection, Maccabee reports that he recognized an interesting correlation, at this time, between remote viewing research and UFO's. He writes:
"These guys who didn't believe in UFOs, but did believe strongly in metal bending, psychokinesis, remote viewing and all that mind research, were suddenly confronted with the UFO problem right in their face. [snip] But there was this intersection point where psychics started zeroing in on UFOs and the people in the paranormal side were saying, 'This can't be. UFO's aren't real.' So they had to start investigating what was going on in the UFO community."
MJ12, Serpo, and Other Privately Run Hoaxes
Dr. Green's interest in UFOs, which apparently was sparked by Maccabee's reports in 1979, led to a growing personal interest in the subject matter, which continued long after he left the CIA in 1985.
The general timeline of known Ufology involvement (in part, from Bob Collins book Exempt from Disclosure):
1984 - Jaime Shandera receives "Operation Majestic 12" documents.
1986 to 1988 - A meeting at the house of retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Ernie Kellerstrass kicks off "bird" players Richard Doty, Dale Graff, Ernie Kellerstrass, Hal Puthoff, Scott Jones, Kit Green, John Alexander, and Robert Collins himself.
1987 - Shandera, Moore and Friedman release the MJ-12 documents to the public.
1988 - Richard Doty and Ernie Kellerstrass meet with and attempt to impress executive producer Seligman (the producer of "UFO Cover-Up Live") with cloak-and-dagger dramatics.
1989 - Follow-up "group" meeting at an Albuquerque, NM hotel included Hal Puthoff, Kit Green, Rick Doty, Bill and Jaime and Collins. Collins writes, "Kit Green took center stage by proposing several lines of attack involving disclosure strategies."
1990's - Ufologist Timothy Cooper allegedly receives "new Majestic 12 documents". Researchers noted that typewriter anomalies in these new documents matched anomalies produced by Timothy's own typewriter. Note - Timothy Cooper is listed as a contributor, along with Richard Doty, to Robert Collin's book Exempt From Disclosure
2005 - Rick Doty, and pseudonym characters Gene and Paul, launched a story on the Internet called "Project Serpo", a tale about 12 astronauts who went on an exchange program to an alien planet. They claimed this was an alleged disclosure coming from an "anonymous" government insider. The scam was just as strange and ridiculous (and appeared to attempt to compete with) the ongoing Dan Burisch scam.
Eventually, investigators at this site uncovered and revealed the names of individuals privately and very actively involved with the people (two other men...forming what has become termed the "Team of Five") who were distributing the information to the public via an email list and a website (and at least one presentation at a Laughlin Conference). These individuals were none other than - Dr. Christopher Green and Dr. Harold Puthoff, both very good friends of Rick Doty's. RU investigators also published the fact that Rick Doty's own computer IP was identified on the header of not only the anonymous source emails, but also Paul McGovern's, and several other characters who were allegedly "insiders" communicating only via email, and refusing to meet anyone in person, or speak on the phone.
According to Bob Collins - the old group from the 1980s still exists. This group includes Hal Puthoff, Rick Doty, Kit Green, and Robert Collins, but very likely also includes Ernie Kellerstrass, Dale Graff, Scott Jones, and John Alexander. Collins writes:
"To this day many of us still stay in contact (except for Bill & Jaime) coordinating information while talking with our sources."
I recently asked Dr. Green why he and Hal have remained so involved in this subject matter (UFOs) for so many years - always in the very "thick" of scams such as MJ12, Project Aquarius, Burisch, and Project Serpo; risking getting "outed" and giving the general public the impression that they were also an integral part of the scams perpetrated and distributed by their friend Rick Doty and others. His answer was eloquent, as always:
"In hindsight, even my foray into 'The Team of FIVE' to try and see if Anonymous (The first one) was really a sitting US Government person, 'leaking' some classified data I had seen snippets of before (unrelated to UFO's, actually), to support disclosure in the guise of a fiction to protect psyches...contributed. I am both continuously ashamed I didn't see the risk, and better informed that fewer angels dance on pins than I thought. I believe in angels, too. But my stupid complicity has changed my entire way of both operating, and viewing what is happening. 'Physician...Heal Thyself'?"
Back in 2007, RU researchers requested the assistance of Las Vegas KLAS-TV reporter George Knapp in the process of investigating an ancillary Ufology scam. RU researchers provided him with much of the background related to the Serpo scam, and the involvement of the named individuals above. His reaction was typical of his straight-shooting style:
"I'm certainly not going to jump to any conclusions because I still place considerable trust in the other parties. My opinion is the same---those other people are solid. If they are up to something, there are good reasons., although I sure as hell don't understand what they are at this point and probably never will."
After a few weeks, RU researchers had another exchange with Knapp to discuss what he had uncovered for them, and Knapp's final words were very wise.
"I've been involved in the UFO topic for 19 years and can count the credible, trustworthy people on my 10 digits. You are going to tell me something about two of the ten on my personal list. That's fine, I want to hear it, and you have my word that I will not share anything from our conversation with anyone else, including the unnamed duo.
All I'm saying is, those other people still have my trust until someone proves otherwise. The rest of us only dabble in the UFO subject. Those guys walk on a high tightrope without a net, and it might be tough for non-spooks like us to figure out what the hell they are doing and where their loyalties lie."
George's comments ring true. We may draw conclusions, and many of those conclusions about the involvement of these individuals in these odd UFO and Alien stories may be somewhat accurate. But as Knapp points out, it can be very difficult to understand what they are doing, why they are doing it, and where their loyalties lie. Unfortunately, because the world of the paranormal is so murky, dark, and easy to hide in - we may never know.
Author Ryan Dube - 9th August 2008
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